How to Guide Someone through the Death Process using Mindfulness ~ SHINZEN YOUNG

DaltheJigsaw

aura

Expansion and contraction and going with the flow... of being "ripped apart"?
No. It is not that way.
Death is not a "ripped apart" and it is not a "contraction"
It is the expansion of consciousness beyond this 4 dimensional world of x, y,z, and time forms into awareness of a greater dimension of being in which one has always had being.
That dimension intersects and pervades this one.
That dimension forms this one.
And death is in no way a contractionof anything; but areleaseof everything.
release
release
release
clinging is what causes suffering, contracting is what causes suffering,
release.

He is still thinking and talking in 4 dimensions as though 4 dimensions are the sum total of existence!
They are not.
Beyond the 4 dimensions, every place and time and lifetime and form there has ever been or will ever be is also available right here and right now; you need only think of it and you are there, and so it is your thought that creates your world.
With consciousness of that dimension where everything and everywhere and every form there ever was or will be is also here and now
the only question is
what do you cling to?
because what you do cling to.... you will become
and you will be there.
Your thoughts are your freedom, but also your confinement
and it will be just as real as where you are now.
Everybody has been there, done that,
and this lifetime is the t shirt.
Meditate long enough and you will eventually notice
that everybody on the planet is wearing a whole lot of forms,
a whole lot of t shirts.

Zero

No-one knows until its time to go through it... I often wonder who the 'guide' is trying to convince / help... is it the person who is dying or themselves to reassure themselves in light of imminent death?

I think that preparation for your death (i.e. life) is yours and yours alone... and since there is no 'you' - it is not something to own!! So much better to die a little everyday...

Lady_Alison

@zero I keep seeing a pattern. Not sure what it would be called to a buddhist... But it seems like when you die to the material world, and move beyond depression and negative emotions and thoughts you truly begin to live.

You can't have the pleasure without pain...

You can't learn to ease suffering until you have caused suffering...can't know love unless you know hate.

Why do these extremes exist titer totering in a strange balance.

What do you call them ?

ThailandTom

I agree with the comment above in a very big way. If it was not for buddha leaving his kingdom, then he would never have seen so much suffering and poverty that lead to his path. I am sure many people here can relate to experiencing death on a secondary basis. I myself am awaiting blood test results, and even though they are not yet known to me, it has put me that bit closer to death mentally, and that has been enough to give me a kick up the arse in some respects.

Just to note, according to quatumn physics there are 11 dimensions, we live in the 3rd dimension and percieve the 4th (time) in a 1 dimensionl manner so to speak, like a little slice of it from moment to moment rather than actually living in the 4th dimension where you would be a long extension from egg and sperm cell to a corpse.

Spaceless

The Bardo Thötröl , the Tibetan title for
the Book of the Dead, is one of a series
of instructions on six types of liberation
composed by Padmasambhava, who
according to legend buried the texts in
the hills of central Tibet. The Bardo texts
were later discovered by Karma-Lingpa.
spiritofmaat.com/archive/aug2/tibetan.htm

Spaceless

misecmisc1

Hi All,

Just now i browsed this post and i am finding this discussion something similar to what i thought in my thread:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/13615/as-per-buddha-who-experiences-pain-and-pleasure/p2

Please browse through my above post and please see what i commented on Jan 8 in which there is a video - world is an illusion. Then @Dakini suggested me somethings regarding quantum physics suggesting about consciousness. So i thought about it, somehow got some ideas in mind by thinking about it and then posted on Jan 9 in my above post. These ideas can be totally wrong in reality - but came to my mind, so posted it as it made some sense to me. Please read the posts from a content perspective and not where(in which religion) and who said it - the objective is not to compare religions but to try to guess what can be in reality - though my view is the actual answer may come on becoming totally Awakened/Enlightened/Self-realization done.

Please share your views either in this post or in my post - as you wish, but let me know your thoughts about it. Thanks in advance.

DaltheJigsaw

Hi All,

Just now i browsed this post and i am finding this discussion something similar to what i thought in my thread:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/13615/as-per-buddha-who-experiences-pain-and-pleasure/p2

Please browse through my above post and please see what i commented on Jan 8 in which there is a video - world is an illusion. Then @Dakini suggested me somethings regarding quantum physics suggesting about consciousness. So i thought about it, somehow got some ideas in mind by thinking about it and then posted on Jan 9 in my above post. These ideas can be totally wrong in reality - but came to my mind, so posted it as it made some sense to me. Please read the posts from a content perspective and not where(in which religion) and who said it - the objective is not to compare religions but to try to guess what can be in reality - though my view is the actual answer may come on becoming totally Awakened/Enlightened/Self-realization done.

Please share your views either in this post or in my post - as you wish, but let me know your thoughts about it. Thanks in advance.

Was this for me? If so, I will check it out and probably post in here or there.

Thank You,
Leon

DaltheJigsaw

Hi All,

Just now i browsed this post and i am finding this discussion something similar to what i thought in my thread:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/13615/as-per-buddha-who-experiences-pain-and-pleasure/p2

Please browse through my above post and please see what i commented on Jan 8 in which there is a video - world is an illusion. Then @Dakini suggested me somethings regarding quantum physics suggesting about consciousness. So i thought about it, somehow got some ideas in mind by thinking about it and then posted on Jan 9 in my above post. These ideas can be totally wrong in reality - but came to my mind, so posted it as it made some sense to me. Please read the posts from a content perspective and not where(in which religion) and who said it - the objective is not to compare religions but to try to guess what can be in reality - though my view is the actual answer may come on becoming totally Awakened/Enlightened/Self-realization done.

Please share your views either in this post or in my post - as you wish, but let me know your thoughts about it. Thanks in advance.

Can you post it in here, I cannot find the post you are referring to.

misecmisc1

@leon: it is for you and for all too.

the subject of my post is - As per Buddha, who experiences pain and pleasure?

since the posts on Jan 8 and jan 9 were slightly long, so instead of reposting it here, i am refreshing that thread again. if still someone is not able to locate my thread, please let me know, then i will try copy-pasting it here again.

DaltheJigsaw

@leon: it is for you and for all too.

the subject of my post is - As per Buddha, who experiences pain and pleasure?

since the posts on Jan 8 and jan 9 were slightly long, so instead of reposting it here, i am refreshing that thread again. if still someone is not able to locate my thread, please let me know, then i will try copy-pasting it here again.

Just copy and paste we can continue here.

Spaceless

According to buddha in various scriptures is to let the dying who has not reach a meditativeness be mindful of buddha name. It cannot be treated equally as the normal pain and pleasure of living as mentioned. Because in that state of dying mind, normally the consciousn mind is very frail due to lack of blessing or generosity on kind deeds/merits cultivation, hence, a lot of karmic debtors and creditors will be appearing before the dead to cause dukka. Severe dukka in last breath will land the dying into hell. Amitabha

misecmisc1

@leon / all : Fine as requested copy-pasting it here:

My Jan 8 post:

Hi All,

yesterday i saw the documentary which @person has posted with the subject - the day i died. Today morning i was thinking about it, and something came up in my mind abruptly.

Before going on as what came to my mind, i will like to clear following things:
1. i am not contradicting what Buddha said - Buddha was enlightened and i am not even intelligent(rather may be even stupid) , so no way i am raising questions on Buddha's teachings.
2. i am not comparing religions here - not saying whether things said in Hinduism or Buddhism is more correct.
3. i am not a quantum physicist but have just studied about it a little bit through google search and some videos about it.

The below are only my views, which can be totally wrong.

In Hinduism in Bhagwad Geeta(a holy book), Lord Krishna told: there is Soul or Atman or Consciousness and the human body is just a vehicle in which the Soul(or Consciousness) is travelling like a passenger. On death, Consciousness leaves old body and migrates into new body.

Now quantum physics M theory of 11 dimensions suggests - matter really does not exist. Moreover, the quantum superpositioning(not sure if this is the technical term, but it is something like this) suggests an atom is everywhere but when a conscious observer observes it then it seems to occupy the position as per it:


So it can happen that there is actually Consciousness in ourselves. We deny it saying it is imaginary as it cannot be perceived by our physical senses. But there are other things, which we cannot perceive by our physical senses like high-frequency sounds which dogs can perceive but not us, ultra-sonic sounds which bats can perceive but not us, ultravoilet or infrared light which we cannot perceive etc - but these all exist. So Consciousness also may be existing in us.

Moreover at the time of death, consciousness disappears from one body and moves in another body - this seems possible from quantum physics as it does not get lost anywhere, rather it just disappears from one point and appears in another point, so relatively its position changes - this is not to say that it actually works like this, but in a way something like this may be explained from scientific perspective. This can lead to rebirth in human life or transmigration of Soul into bodies of animals, birds etc. The same reasoning can be used to explain NDE out of body experiences too.

So what do you all think, can something of the above may be happening and in reality Soul or Consciousness is in all of us and it is the Soul which experiences all pains and pleasures? I think the real answer may come only on Enlightenment, but till then we can have some view about it. Please share your views.

Then @dakini replied to my above post:

In my view, the scientific explanation relates to the theory that consciousness is a field that permeates the universe (we had a video and a science article on that, but I haven't been able to find them). Quantum physics says consciousness is non-local, it's not confined in our body. So when someone dies, or has an OBE, their consciousness is simply re-integrating into the consciousness field. That's my story until proven otherwise.

Then i thought over it and the below came to my mind on Jan 9:

@dakini: please try to find that link which you are referring, so that i may get more insight into till where quantum physics can take us. Thanks in advance.

@federica: in Bhagwad Geeta, Lord Krishna stated there are two consciousness - Consciousness(Jeevatma) and Universal Consciousness(Parmatma) existing in human physical body - the analogy is given to a tree on which 2 birds are sitting - one bird(Consciousness or Soul or Jeevatma) is eating the fruits of the tree, so bound by Karma and the second bird(Universal Consciousness) is just the observer and only observes whatever is going on, so is unbound by karma. So basically a theory of dualism - Consciousness, though being part of Universal Consciousness, is both same and different.

@dakini: Moreover, seeing your view something came to my mind just now - so quantum physics suggests consciousness permeates through universe and is non-local - this can be the case - so what may be happening is this: The whole universe is permeated by Universal Consciousness - so we may have both Consciousness and Universal Consciousness in us - at the time of death, our local Consciousness relocates to a point which is out of our body in case of NDE OBE experience, or relocates to a point which may be local to another new body in case of rebirth a human body or transmigration of Soul to a body of animal, bird etc. As far as Universal Consciousness is concerned, since it is permeating the whole universe, so it is everywhere. Though we have to keep in mind that Consciousness, though being part of Universal Consciousness, is both same and different. So may be what has been separately said is just for the easier understanding of the people and in actuality, there may be only one Consciousness, which can be both local Consciousness and Universal Consciousness (getting diffentiated only because of Karma getting accumulated - if karma, then Consciousness is local - if all karma finished, then Consciousness has merged into Universal Consciousness and it is liberated from the cycle of birth and death.

The above are completely my views and it can be totally wrong too. But somehow after writing the above things, i am feeling it is making some sense to me.


Hi All,
Please suggest your views on above.

So please suggest your views on above - but keeping in mind to leave who and where(in which religion) is the above said and just thinking about what is being said.

federica

@misecmisc1:
Please stop mixing thread content and blending posts.
It's extremely confusing.
If you're not getting the answers you require, then maybe you're asking the wrong questions.
This does not engender constructive dialogue, it's just a mess.....

This has all become such a mish-mash of different sources, I'm going to close it.
If you have a point, start a new thread, from fresh, in the appropriate forum.

And just stick to posts therein.

Thanks.