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Comments

  • Leon, just curious if you have a link to the whole speach?

    Also, is that true that there are no americans fighting in Iraq? I must be in my cave?? :o
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    The link I provided should cover most of it? Scroll down and it has it in text? If not, I will try to locate it. He pulled most of them out and I believe by end of this year, he is pulling them all out.
  • I can find it somewhere it must be all over, but thanks :)
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Welcome Jeffrey! It is all over!
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Let me know what you thought!
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Despite the fact that I have increasingly seen State Of The Union speeches as being just another political speech, I thought this was a fairly good one, and less aggressively partisan than most of recent years.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Despite the fact that I have increasingly seen State Of The Union speeches as being just another political speech, I thought this was a fairly good one, and less aggressively partisan than most of recent years.
    Thank you for commenting!
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Don't get worried over spilled milk. :rolleyes:
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Don't get worried over spilled milk. :rolleyes:
    :)
  • Also, is that true that there are no americans fighting in Iraq? I must be in my cave?? :o
    There's still some Americans in Iraq. Mostly private contractors and, I think, a relative handful of military personnel, but we've pretty much withdrawn from there.
  • B5CB5C Veteran
    It is a great speech, but nothing will be done because the GOP will not let it happen.
  • Personally, I'm alarmed by the speech. He says the rich should pay a minimum tax of 30%. WTF???!!! :rant: The middle class pays more than that! WTF-F??!! He also says that with all the savings from closing down the wars, he wants to start big infrastructure projects. HELLO!! The wars are financed not from the federal budget (tax income), but from debt! You close down the wars and you're ending the runaway debt. There is no money there to start any projects with!

    Madness!! Total smoke and mirrors!
  • We have to start repairing and updating our infrastructure. That is not an option. A country without an infrastructure cannot function, and ours is in sorry shape.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited January 2012
    Personally, I'm alarmed by the speech. He says the rich should pay a minimum tax of 30%. WTF???!!! :rant: The middle class pays more than that! WTF-F??!! He also says that with all the savings from closing down the wars, he wants to start big infrastructure projects. HELLO!! The wars are financed not from the federal budget (tax income), but from debt! You close down the wars and you're ending the runaway debt. There is no money there to start any projects with!

    Madness!! Total smoke and mirrors!
    Yeah, I noticed that contradiction about the war money too. As to the tax, the tax on capital gains is %15. A lot of the money the rich earn are from investment income so thats what he's talking about. It can be a bit of a trick though, take Romney for example, his income was taxed as capital gains because he was paid as an investor in Bain Capital even though none of the money the profits came from were actually his own. And its why Warren Buffet says he pays a lower tax than his secretary.

    The argument for a low capital gains tax is that it encourages investment. I wonder if that is really the case though. Personally I don't think anyone invests money because they have extra money sloshing around in their pockets, they invest money because they see an opportunity for return. If there is potential for return people regularly borrow money to make it so (starting a business, purchasing equipment). Even if it better at %15 there needs to be enough demand to meet that investment which starts with the average consumer, so the government should invest in the middle class to boost demand. The roots of the financial meltdown can be traced to a global glut of investment dollars looking for a home.

    The speech seemed to be setting the field for his campaign. I liked the arguments he was putting forward. I heard it described as a kind of optimistic populism.


  • Yeah, I noticed that contradiction about the war money too. As to the tax, the tax on capital gains is %15. A lot of the money the rich earn are from investment income so thats what he's talking about.
    The argument for a low capital gains tax is that it encourages investment. I wonder if that is really the case though. Personally I don't think anyone invests money because they have extra money sloshing around in their pockets, they invest money because they see an opportunity for return.
    I didn't notice that he specified capital gains tax with his 30%. What about taxable earned income? Did I miss something (I read the speech in the newspaper), or are people assuming he was talking about capital gains?

    They don't invest money because they have extra sloshing around. Lee Iacocca wrote a rant about that, saying, "Thanks, but I don't need the money" about those tax cuts. He said nobody uses it for investment or to create jobs, he says the rich should be paying more tax to rescue the country from collapse.

    A global glut of investment dollars looking for a home? The meltdown isn't due mainly to the financial shenanigans of banks and investment firms? Please, fill me in. This is new to me. Thx for your input.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited January 2012
    I didn't notice that he specified capital gains tax with his 30%. What about taxable earned income? Did I miss something (I read the speech in the newspaper), or are people assuming he was talking about capital gains?
    I was assuming. I think earned income tax is %36 for the top bracket. I can't imagine Obama was suggesting a tax cut for the wealthy.

    A global glut of investment dollars looking for a home? The meltdown isn't due mainly to the financial shenanigans of banks and investment firms? Please, fill me in. This is new to me. Thx for your input.
    I think this radio program summed it up well iirc.

    My understanding is that there was excess investment money, also partly created by extremely low interest rates for borrowing. This created a desire to find a place to invest. Bundled mortgage products seemed like a good place. Since there was excess capital mortgage bundles were sold as soon as they were made. That created incentive to make more. All the regular mortgages and purchasers where at capacity so there was a strong incentive to give unqualified borrowers a mortgage. Since the bundles where unloaded immediatly the borrowers had no responsibility for the sustainability of the mortgages and the rating agencies messed the hell up when they based the new mortgages as if they were traditional ones. So excess money made selling bundled mortgages so easy that borrowers didn't care who they lent to. Investment firms and banks put pressure to get more loans and created the bundled products. Plenty of shenanigans ensued to keep pumping them out.

    There is also the case that since money was so cheap to borrow investors could borrow money at cheaper rates than they would get on returns. So they were borrowing 30-40 times what money they had on hand. The repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999 allowed traditional banks to get into investment banking, meaning when the bleep hit the fan normal banks that lend money were so leveraged that they would collapse thus drying up the lending that greases the economic wheels. Those in government felt the only way to prevent that was to bail them out.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    HE IS A GOOD SPEECH MAKER ;)
  • @person That makes sense, but part of the problem was that risky mortgages, and mortgage bundles were allowed to be created as investment instruments in the first place. The factors go hand-in-hand. But now that you mention it, I remember hearing a discussion about that on NPR.
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