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Taoism vs Buddhism

edited January 2012 in Faith & Religion

The Vinegar Tasters painting is the most popular painting related to taoism. It was made even more famous when the book "Tao of Pooh" mentioned this piece of art.

The following is a summary of the passages from the book...

Three men are standing around a vat of vinegar. Each one has dipped his finger into the vinegar and has tasted it. The expression on each man's face shows his individual reaction. Since the painting is allegorical, we are to understand that these are no ordinary vinegar tasters, but are instead representatives of the "Three Teachings" of China, and that the vinegar they are sampling represents the Essence of Life. The three masters are Confucius, Buddha, and Lao Zi, author of the oldest existing book of Taoism. The first has a sour look on his face, the second wears a bitter expression, but the third man is smiling.

To Confucius, life seemed rather sour. He believed that the present was out step with the past, and that the government of man on earth was out of harmony with the Way of Heaven, the government of, the universe...... A saying was recorded about Confucius: "If the mat was not straight, the Master would not sit." This ought to give an indication of the extent to which things were carried out under Confucianism.

To Buddha, the second figure in the painting, life on earth was bitter, filled with attachments and desires that led to suffering. The world was seen as a setter of traps, a generator of illusions, a revolving wheel of pain for all creatures. In order to find peace, the Buddhist considered it necessary to transcend "the world of dust" and reach Nirvana. Although the essentially optimistic attitude of the Chinese altered Buddhism considerably after it was brought in from its native India, the devout Buddhist often saw the way to Nirvana interrupted all the same by the bitterness of everyday existence.

To Lao Zi, the harmony that naturally existed between heaven and earth from the very beginning could be found by anyone at any time, but not by following the rules of the Confucianists. According to Lao Zi, the more man interfered with the natural balance produced and governed by the universal laws, the further away the harmony retreated into the distance. The more forcing, the more trouble. Whether heavy or light, wet or dry, fast or slow, everything had its own nature already within it, which could not be violated without causing difficulties. When abstract and arbitrary rules were imposed from the outside, struggle was inevitable. Only then did life become sour.

How did Buddhism respond to this critique in China? How might we respond today? Taste it for yourself.

Comments

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    image

    I've always liked reading the Tao Te Ching. I find the teachings of Taoism to be a way to live harmoniously and happily in the world. For me Buddhism is about escaping the yin/yang cycle and finding lasting peace. I don't know anything about Confucianism.

    Nice tale.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 2012
    I think all three are wise but I find buddhism to be a middle path between duty and going with the flow. In confucious teaching the regard and consideration of others is well developed along with rules and systems. I don't recall taoism though I did love the Chuang Tzu and I think the taoism helps to be flexible and open like the uncarved block.

    Here is what I recall of confucious: A king was asking him about morality. The king had heard from somewhere that a ruler should be certain qualities of a good ruler as traditional. He was preparing to execute someone for failing at some task if I recall or perhaps sacrificing an animal, I forget. Confucious asked the king what he would do if he saw a small child perhaps old enough to toddle around but oblivious of danger and sense. The king said that he would rescue the child and find him his/her family. Confucious replied that just as the king has moral behaviour towards the child if that same goodness were to expand it could reach all of the people in the kingdom.

    To me this is a positive side of confucious teaching in that people essentially follow the golden rule. So I think confucious is not at odds with buddhism or taoism. All three wish for a good result and all three are virtuous in my opinion.

    Historically a branch of taoism pursued eternal life by various occult methods. Maybe they found life so sweet that they wanted more of it? Thus the actual behaviour of the taoists is consistent with the interpretation of the painting. I recall that the perspective of each being is respected in taoism. Freedom. I think this might be popular with westerners but buddhism is more popular because it deals head on with suffering and most people switch religions out of pain. But I really find taoism to be a celebration of our nature and it reminds me of Ajahn Brahm and my lama who are outgoing and irreverant.
    Hui tzu and chuang tzu were staring down at some fish and Hui tzu said "I wonder what the fish are thinking?" Chuang Tzu said, "See how the minnows come out and dart around where they please! That's what fish really enjoy!"

    Hui Tzu said, "You're not a fish - how do you know what fish enjoy?"

    Chuang Tzu said, "You're not I, so how do you know I don't know what fish enjoy?"

    Hui Tzu said, "I'm not you, so I certainly don't know what you know. On the other hand, you're certainly not a fish ‑ so that still proves you don't know what fish enjoy!"

    Chuang Tzu said, "Let's go back to your original question, please. You asked me how I know what fish enjoy ‑ so you already knew I knew it when you asked the question. I know it by standing here beside the Hao."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_Shi

    I see the celebration of simple experience and letting problems drop away as well as a brand of clear seeing that cuts through ruminative analysis.

    As far as buddhism I find the duty of confucious but not the worldliness. They both share altruism in some sense but the buddhists focus on peace in the self rather than ordering the others. Perhaps the bodhisattva path is similar but that path is very vast and more flexible in some sense. I find taoism more beautiful and buddhism more profound. Rather than seeing the ugly as beautiful buddhism lets go of thirst and developing any self picture. Because ugly and beauty are not the answer dispassion is developed and the investment of taking the bull by the horns pays off.
  • One interpretation is that each has something to teach.

    I think is useful to ponder on the tendency to be world-rejecting in Buddhism. If the history of Buddhism was maintained by monasteries, not lay people, would we expect them to advocate a lay life?

    Despite the Taoist rhetoric the Buddha tasting vinegar as bitter is very Zen - as it is a bit bitter.

    Zen became the dominant School in China, after an period of anti-monastic sentiment in which only Zen monasteries weren't destroyed on the basis that Zen monks worked, initially to avoid Imperial interference, later when Buddhism was at that time seen as parasitic when the Emperor funded them, needed money - they were destroyed.

    Zen's directness does speak to this story.

    It is also interesting to look at the ideologic intention of this story - and how Taoism presents itself as the best path. Of course, Buddhist's would never stoop to that sort of tactic and would never elaborate on history to impress others. ;)
  • If you know them, you know harmony and a harmoniously peaceful person beyond nature. Otherwise, you have to be earnestly in which ever path you are acquainted with. Any attempt to disintegrate them intentionally or unintentionally will generate future disastering effect. Be peace upon you :D
  • If you know them, you know harmony and a harmoniously peaceful person beyond nature. Otherwise, you have to be earnestly in which ever path you are acquainted with. Any attempt to disintegrate them intentionally or unintentionally will generate future disastering effect. Be peace upon you :D
    Seriously, have you ever experienced anything beyond nature, outside of fantasy? The trick with Buddhism is that all you have to do is wake up to what is right infront of you - most people don't pay enough attention to their own experience. There is nothing really that comes from the outside. There is nothing that is beyond your normal experience, but if you look really closely at that you might find that your ordinary experience is empty/full of mystery. Then you will laugh at people who talk about magical higher states of consciousness, special powers, etc., because they don't know what is right here now - and under their noses.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Check Daniel Reid: http://www.danreid.org He has an amazing book out. Books by Daniel Reid
    - The Tao of Health, Sex and Longevity
    http://www.danreid.org/daniel-reid-books-tao-health-sex-longevity.asp
    One of my favorites! Out of all the books I have read on Taoism and it has been at least 20 or 30. Lol.
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