Did Jesus and Buddha really teach the same thing(if one looks deep enough)

Peace2012ca

I was wondering....deep beneath the external words...could they both be pointing to the same messsage

Example:
(1) Buddhism: Annata, non-self. Jesus "deny thyself".
(2) Buddhism: Metta Meditation. Jesus "if one strikes one cheek, let them strike the other", "pray for your enemies"
(3) Buddhism: Impermenance. Jesus - "don't store any treasures on earth...where moths corrupt"
(4) Both Buddha and Jesus had flower sermons. Buddha - holding up flower. Jesus - "look at lillies, they neither toil nor..."

These are all the examples I could think of now.

shanyin

I heard one pastor at a church compare the flower sermon to when Jesus holds up a child to his disciples.



I think you'll find that interesting

shanyin

there is a part 2 if you search for it

Jeffrey

They taught some of the same things, but they also had differences that are hard to reconcile.

this links

to a google search the first hit is a thesis explaining how Mystical-Negative theology (christian study) and Shentong Madyamaka (buddhist study) can be reconciled..

It is true that much of Christian and Buddhist theologies and philosophies are indeed quite distinct. One generally affirms a real God who created a real world. The other negates a creator-God and often also the reality of this world. Buddhist philosophy calls this absence of any reality that could be grasped as truly existent "emptiness".

However, even in regard to the absolute there are Buddhist and Christian schools of thought that are very much akin. This thesis seeks to show that Shentong Madhyamaka and Mystical-Negative theology are one example. Although Shentongpas do not negate the validity of emptiness, they nonetheless affirm (in a certain way) positive characteristics of the absolute such as existence, wisdom, compassion, and even form. And although Mystical-Negative theologians do not negate the usefulness of thinking of God as the Creator, they also speak of an absolute reality that transcends all human concepts of existence and non-existence, Creator and created.

It is obviously not my intent to add arguments to the rhetoric of those who would prove Shentong Madhyamaka "unbuddhist" because of its similarity to theism, or negative theology "unchristian" by pointing to its kinship with Eastern thought. On the contrary, my hope is that religious people around the world can learn to rejoice in their commonalities without fearing a loss of identity. Hopefully it will become clear that in spite of all commonalities the Blessed Angela of Foligno, one of the greatest medieval mystics, is very Christian; just as the Omniscient Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen, who systematized the Shentong Madhyamaka, is very Buddhist.

Hence, other preconceptions I would like to help dispel are those concerning what the "mainstream" or "majority" of Christians and Buddhists believe or do not believe. Narrow views of what it means to be Christian or Buddhist are often held not only by outsiders of different faiths but equally by masses of insiders who think of their particular species of tradition (or denomination) and school of thought as the standard for their whole family of religion. Yet it would seem that two thousand or more years after their founders left their bodies, it is time to concede that each and every Christian or Buddhist sect is but a variation on a theme. Unless we want to continue a tradition of religious intolerance, wars and persecutions, we have little choice but to accept that neither religion has produced only one "mainstream" or "true" form of its tradition. Both religions include such a plurality of distinct teachings, practices, approaches and denominations that one may even dispute the propriety of referring to Buddhism or Christianity in the singular.

@Peace2012ca, Your examples make sense and I like the idea of the flower sermon compared to the lillies. Have you read eclesiastics? That seems similar to buddhism with the exception of the different conclusions: all is vanity except faith in the Lord vs. study hard monks for all composite things decay.

My dharma teacher is mentioned in the thesis as an inspiration. The thesis is just academic but I think discussing some legitimate ideas relevant to the faiths.

Lady_Alison

Interesting...I want to see what other people post...I remember reading that john the baptist and jesus where Essene...a jewish ascetic sect that became extinct decades after the "crucifixion"..

It's possible tha jesus could have rubbed elbows with Buddhists and maybe used it to re interpret the jewish law...possible?

Established a spirit of the law.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand...cultivating presence, inner stillness and peace...?

Just thoughts.

Peace2012ca

Jeffrey,

I haven't read eclesiastics but I have a greater determination now that I see parts of the Bible reflect Buddhist principles.

Here's another one:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." -> Rich people have a harder time letting go of attachments

"Lust for women...gouge eye...better lose one part of body then have the body cast into hell" -> Buddha: Craving is dangerous. When you crave, you are cast in "hell" ->your entire body. In the case of casual sex...maybe he refers to better cut off your one part of your body then suffer from HIV(i.e., hell)

Lady_Alison

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." -

I remember reading that rich merchants carried heavy loads of merchandise to cities. Sometimes in order to pass through narrow gates, they had to take everything off the beasts and move it little by little as they could not fit throug.

Kingdom of god has so many interpretations but jesus talked about a real experience on this plane of existence instead of waiting for death andthe next life.

Kingdom of god makes me think of nature, phi, golden ratio, 1.618, mystical and transcendential experience, meditation, the fullness of emptiness...like maybe being able to have a sliver of heaven in the midst if hell. Or peace within Chaos.

person

This is interesting

Arjquad

Reminds me of a movie I saw where a guy as basically lived forever and was trying to recount his past. He said that he heard of a great spiritual leader in an eastern land (Buddha) and went and studied with him until the Buddhas death. He then tried to take what he learned and teach it to the people in the west, they misinterpreted his teachings and you end up finding out that he is the actual Jesus.

compassionate_warrior

Interesting...I want to see what other people post...I remember reading that john the baptist and jesus where Essene...a jewish ascetic sect that became extinct decades after the "crucifixion"..

Joseph of Arimethea was also an Essene. I've read that it was he who saw to it that Jesus was cared for medically (herbally) after the Crucifixion. Some say he survived as a result of this care. Do you know the name "Issa" or "Yuz Assaf" in your Quranic study, Lady A?

@Peace2012ca You've touched on one of my favorite topics. May I ask where you got your parallel quotes--from a book, or after your own studies?

There are several ways in which Jesus could have come upon Buddhist teachings. There was a Buddhist colony in Egypt. Whether or not people from that community ever went up to Palestine and Judea, it isn't known, but ideas travelled, and it was common for Jews to travel to Egypt. My all-time favorite theory, though, is that Jesus went East at 13, and studied in India until returning home at 29. At 13, the traditional age for marriage in Jewish society of his time, he would have been expected to take a wife, but we know he didn't. How did he avoid following the custom of his day? Here is a quote from a Tibetan text:

"Issa stepped into his thirteenth year by and by. According to the national custom of the Israelites, this is the right age for matrimony. His parents lived the life of humble folks. Their humble cottage came to be crowded with people proud of wealth and pedigree. Each of them was eager to accept Issa as his son-in-law. Issa was unwilling to marry. He had already earned fame through his expounding the true nature of God. At the proposal of marriage he resolved to leave the house of his father in secret.

At this time his great desire was to achieve full realization of god-head and learn religion at the feet of those who have attained perfection through meditation. He left Jerusalem and started on a journey to Sind in the company of a band of merchants. These merchants procured various commodities from Sind and exported the same to different lands. At the age of 14 he crossed Sind and entered the holy land of the Aryans. As he was passing all along through the land of the five rivers, his benign appearance, face radiating peace and comely forehead attracted Jain devotees who knew him to be one who had received blessings from God Himself." -- excerpt from Hemis Monastery text on Jesus' life, as published by Swami Abhedananda in "Journey Into Kashmir and Tibet"

The text goes on to describe his travel to India, his study of the Vedas there, and six years of study of the Pali Canon.

edit: @arjquad Jesus is said to have lived to 120. What was the movie you mention?

conradcook

I once had the idea that Jesus was the reincarnation of the Buddha. I argued that, if you look at the way Jesus updated Judaism, and the way the Buddha updated Hinduism, the updates themselves were compellingly similar. There may be similarities, but I no longer think they were the same person or that the teachings are the same.

Both taught kindness. But I think the clear mind that Buddhists cultivate is fundamentally different than the salvation of Christ.


Conrad.

Arjquad

@Compassionate_warrior I can't remember. I just saw it on the Sci-Fi channel when I was bored and was channel surfing.

Arjquad

^^ I just looked it up and the movie is The Man from Earth.

Lady_Alison

@compassionate_warrior yes, the quran and commentator support that isa traveled to kashmir with his mother where he lives until old age.

The quran describes kashmir as a valley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus'_death

compassionate_warrior

@compassionate_warrior yes, the quran and commentator support that isa traveled to kashmir with his mother where he lives until old age.
The quran describes kashmir as a valley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus'_death

You may be interested in this site, set up by a Muslim who has visited the site of Jesus' tomb, and who has collected a lot of interesting data and testimony: http://www.tombofJesus.com

B5C

Yeah, the only comparison the Buddha and Jesus had was the Golden Rule.

Jesus preached that he was an god and the only way to get to haven is only accepting him as god.

Buddha teaches how to be enlightened and never claimed that salvation is through only accepting the Buddha nor he claimed he was an god.

Dakini

Jesus preached that the only way to get to haven is only accepting him as god.

That idea was later imposed by the Church. It didn't come from Jesus. But you raise a good point: Jesus did teach about the glory of God, and the Buddha didn't deal with the issue of a supreme being at all.

B5C

That idea was later imposed by the Church. It didn't come from Jesus. But you raise a good point: Jesus did teach about the glory of God, and the Buddha didn't deal with the issue of a supreme being at all.

From the Gospels:

"Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!' Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.'" (John 20:28-29)

John 5:16-18
"Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."

John 20:28
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God."

I can go on and on.

vinlyn

Yeah, the only comparison the Buddha and Jesus had was the Golden Rule.

Jesus preached that he was an god and the only way to get to haven is only accepting him as god.

Buddha teaches how to be enlightened and never claimed that salvation is through only accepting the Buddha nor he claimed he was an god.

In what passage does he say that he is God?

B5C

In what passage does he say that he is God?

1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.

Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.'"

58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham 1was born, aI am.”

John 10:33 (NASB95)
33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

vinlyn

Almost every quote you've given in two posts now are where others have said he is god.

Dakini

Where did he say that the only way to heaven was to believe in his divinity?

federica

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6.

vinlyn

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6.

Yes, he apparently did say that (or at John says that he said it), but that is not the same as B5C saying, "Jesus preached that he was an god."

Lady_Alison

@compassionate_warrior yes, the quran and commentator support that isa traveled to kashmir with his mother where he lives until old age.
The quran describes kashmir as a valley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus'_death

You may be interested in this site, set up by a Muslim who has visited the site of Jesus' tomb, and who has collected a lot of interesting data and testimony: http://www.tombofJesus.com

thank you, darling.

Lady_Alison

Yeah, the only comparison the Buddha and Jesus had was the Golden Rule.

Jesus preached that he was an god and the only way to get to haven is only accepting him as god.

Buddha teaches how to be enlightened and never claimed that salvation is through only accepting the Buddha nor he claimed he was an god.

jesus never claimed he was a god, he always defaulted to "abba" daddy or father...as the one God. The gospels have been twisted through out the centuries by men. THere is a whole section of gnostic gospels that are not included in the modern day bible that has seen countless revisions. The gnostic gospels contradict the revised new testament.

Jesus was voted as a God in the counsel of nicea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

imho...all abrahamic faiths can be summarized by the golden rule, and you add an monotheist belief in a single God (except the trinity of christian belief) that meets certain qualifications. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God#Specific_attributes

but the abrahamic faiths are a choice...and this is a buddhist forum...with much respect.

Dakini

Jesus was voted as a God in the counsel of nicea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

Thank you, this is what I was referring to when I said earlier that it was a later addition by the Church. The Bible we have today is not the original document. I have the impression that the BIble was a work-in-progress for centuries, until the Church finally settled on the final version.

Lady_Alison

Jesus brought the spirit of the law to be followed by all, not just the born jews of his time. THat is why he spent so much time with romans, samaritans and unclean people according to judaic practice and false belief at the time.

The christianity that you know today is called apologetics and infuence by paul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle#Critical_views

Lady_Alison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels

I'm sure there are links you can go to to read them.

metta.

Dakini

@Lady_Alison, what do you think about the Jesus-in-the-East theory? I have conflicting impressions of the Quran--doesn't it say that Jesus was taken to Heaven by God? But you say there are also references to Jesus traveling East with his mother after he revives after the Crucifixion. I wonder what those Muslims in Tibet who came from Kashmir think. Coming from a community that lived near his tomb, I'd guess they believe he lived out his life in Kashmir. I don't think this is too off-topic.

Jesus brought the spirit of the law to be followed by all, not just the born jews of his time. THat is why he spent so much time with romans, samaritans and unclean people according to judaic practice and false belief at the time.

I read somewhere that in India, he preached to the lowest castes, which were considered beneath the effort of most holy men. (The Buddha being the one exception, aside from Jesus.)

vinlyn

http://www.tjresearch.info/legends.htm

This is interesting, although note that even the author calls them "legends".

Lady_Alison

the quran is very vaigue on his crucifixion...it says that he was made to suffer a "like death" and that "they" did not kill him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

i want to add that the day of jesus' trial, there was a man that was convicted to die who they set free named "barrabas" this translates as "son of god"...

you have to realize that jesus had many many friends and even his apostles where more like body guards... how many times did he flee from almost getting killed by the mob?

also, abrahamic tradition believes that at the moment of death, you are taken to heaven by God... so it's a matter of interpretation

the bible is interpretation
the bible is interpretaion
the bible is interpretation

Lady_Alison

But please don't take my work for it, I studdied for a mere three years before coming to islam with a curiousity for buddhist practice... take a detour and learn for yourselves.

but don't paraphrase the bible to meet your ends. that is what the christians do to convert the masses. . . judaism and islam do not place obligation on religion nor do they try to convert. If they do, they are not following their faith.

sorry off topic @federica

Lady_Alison

typo...not work...word

Lady_Alison

@dakini...conflicted thoughts of the quran are normal. fundamental muslims read it and don't read the preceeding books, the tanak, torah and gospels...so they twist it, without understanding.

when you start an abrahamic study of the books, start at the beginning. . . genesis...follow up with biblical archeology and alternative histories of creation...follow up with science. . .read the history.

you will get confuse if you read the quran alone without the other books and the history and geography of the bible and quran.

it is also written with double and tripple meanings. It is a delicate language that can leave much to be interpreted.. . very subtle and forces the reader to seek the answers for themselves.

vinlyn

There is one interesting phenomenon that I have noticed in previous similar discussions.

There are those who don't really buy into the Jesus "story". But then they begin to buy into the Jesus in India and Asia "story".

Dakini

@Lady_Alison There's a Gospel of Barabas

I have no doubt Jesus lived, and wasn't just a myth. The question is: did he really perform those miracles? Was he Divine or just a guy, like the Buddha? And what happened to him after he was taken down from the cross and laid in the tomb?

federica

...

sorry off topic @federica

No, not really....not far enough to be considered so.
Nice thread.....

Lady_Alison

If you see his miracles as symbolic and not physical manifestations...curing the blind...what is blindness of the mind? Well, ignorance..

It could have been a spiritual healing.

But if you want to get into metaphysical jesus...aren't there parts of the brain human beings are closed off from..
Imagine the things we could do if we had acces to those areas.

When you read themiracles...ask yourself what is the symbolism?

Lady_Alison

Imo..I don't think he was divine but I see him as the prophet of love and perhaps a super human inbued with abilities...maybe.

But I only care about his message...

Telly03

suopohe

What you are comparing is the leaves of two trees. Some of the leaves may identical. But the two trees are growing in different direction. Jesus: "Eternal life in heaven". Buddha: "End of birth and death. Heaven is impermanent". Bible is like a encyclopedia that contains both good and bad side of humanity. Buddha only teaches Dharma that help every sentient being to learn the cause of suffering.

compassionate_warrior

What you are comparing is the leaves of two trees. Some of the leaves may identical. But the two trees are growing in different direction. Jesus: "Eternal life in heaven". Buddha: "End of birth and death. Heaven is impermanent". Bible is like a encyclopedia that contains both good and bad side of humanity. Buddha only teaches Dharma that help every sentient being to learn the cause of suffering.

This is interesting. I have a question. What is "Tushita Heaven"? What is "Pure Land"? Aren't those Buddhist beliefs? How do those fit in with the "heaven is impermanent" , the-Buddha-didn't-teach-eternal-life-in-Heaven idea? I'm new to these concepts, I'm hoping someone could explain.

person

c_w, the heavens and pure lands are part of the god realms and beings born there are classified as deva's. These births aren't eternal though, so eventually the positive karma that brought them there wears out and they go to lower rebirths.

compassionate_warrior

Oh, those heavens. Got it. But aren't the heaven realms themselves permanent?

Jeffrey

Maybe @Spaceless can say something about pure land. It is based on forming connections to a bodhisattva I believe. And then you are drawn into the bodhisattvas mandala of awakening. The pure land is a realm where there are less obstacles to learning the dharma than other places. In a heaven realm in contrast there is too much enjoyment to study dharma.

There are people in pure realms on earth because they have a great connection with the teachings and awakened beings.

conradcook

Did Jesus claim to be God?

It helps if you understand how God speaks to his prophets.

When God drafts Moses into returning to Egypt and doing his work there, Moses asks him what his name is, so he can tell his people who sent him.

God replies, "I AM. When they ask you, tell them I AM has sent you."

When people ask Christ who he is, he replies, "I am who am."

Conrad.

ps - I had an idea once that the other guy's name was Me First. Win the inward conflict between YOU ARE and You First and you've really gotten somewhere.

compassionate_warrior

Thank you both for your responses, Jeffrey and person.

person

Oh, those heavens. Got it. But aren't the heaven realms themselves permanent?

Its complicated. The heaven realms are divided up into desire, form and formless. Formless realms never get destroyed at the end of a universe. Form realms sometimes do and I think the desire realms always do, or at least more often than the form realms.

My knowledge is limited check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology if you really want the lowdown.

suopohe

Hi compassionate_warrior,
Buddha Pureland exists outside of the 6 realms. It's formed by the vow-power of past Buddhas. There's no suffering there. It's actually a real good place to born to learn about Dharma directly from Buddha and can come back to 6 realms to help other being. Heaven or god realm is part of 6 realms. It's formed by the karma of sentient beings. A person that's rich in good deeds can go to heaven or god realm. Once those good deeds are exhausted, heavenly being then go back down to human realm or other realms again. However, some being can live in heaven realm for such a long time which can be millions or billions of years in terms of human time scale. They think they can live forever.

compassionate_warrior

Thank you, suopohe, this is new to me. Is the Pure Land permanent, or impermanent? Not life in the Pure Land, the Pure Land itself.