People of Different Views

Bekenze

How does one deal with/act around people of different view-points? For example, today I was talking to a family member today, and in a conversation [1] it came up that this person adamantly believes that Einstein was in fact a theist [2]. How should I have responded to this situation? Should I have told her that he was in fact not a theist, or just ignored it? Also, this conversation lead to them revealing to me that they believe the world will definitely end on December 21st. How exactly do I respond to such claims? "Oh, that's interesting." or "Well... there is no evidence for that... etc etc." I have bad social skills. I just need some advice. Thanks.


[1] I was telling this person about a Facebook religious chain-mail strain that is going around, which claims absurdly that Einstein (Christian) beat a professor (atheist/anti-theist) in an creationist vs. evolutionist debate. This person I was talking to claimed that he may have done that, since he did believe in God after all.

[2] Einstein: "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." Einstein has expressed explicably that he is an agnostic, at at best, a symbolic pantheist.

federica

(How is this 'diet and habits'?)

moved to general Banter.

Bekenze

Habit: customary practice or use/an acquired behavior pattern regularly followed until it has become almost involuntary.

What I am asking is how to act, which is a habit. But since this is apparently debatable, I suggest that the administrators of the site create an "advice" section.

federica

not a bad idea.... maybe contact @Lincoln on that one, I take your point....but not sure he'll want more forums cluttering the place up....:)

SpinyNorman2

How does one deal with/act around people of different view-points?

Increasingly I feel that views and opinions aren't really worth the mental energy required to sustain them.

Spiny

Cinorjer

How do I deal with people of, shall we say, alternate views of reality? First, I don't take it personal. The other person has been given wrong information that confirms his or her desire for the world to be a certain way. That does not mean they are calling me a liar because I know they are wrong. The second emotions get triggered in my own mind, I am the one to blame.

Second, I am firm but fair in what I say. If I have looked into it, and often I have because urban myths and alternate beliefs fascinate me, I tell them so. If what they've been told is wrong, I tell them so. But I let them know that many people have been fooled by this wrong information. I offer to point them toward the other side of the story so they can make up their own mind.

Usually by that point the other person has shut down his or her reasoning and retreated to "I'm right and you're wrong" or "So-and-so told me it was true, he'd never lie to me, and that's good enough for me." But I didn't expect to change someone's mind. Just let them know there are reasonable people who believe different and stop them from annoying me with drudge that I've heard a million times.

conradcook

I might argue with them. It could be benefitial. What are the standards by which we determine things are true? Do we look up Einstein's religious beliefs on Wikipedia? In a biography?

Has this person themselves ever thought the world would end before? What kind of end do they have in mind? The death of the species? Destruction of the planet? End of the Universe? Who made the prediction and have they ever made such a prediction before?

Are they willing to bet that the world will end on December 21? I might be willing to bet some non-trivial amount of money that the world would still be in business December 22. Of course, I imagine I'd have to pay him up front...

An English philosopher, as I recall, wagered his friend "a penny a day, against his fortune, that the sun would rise tomorrow."

I think that thinking of it in game-like terms, with consideration of your friend's feelings, is not a bad way to go about it.


Conrad.

Bodha8

Perhaps organize a family picnic for December 22.

Zero

How does one deal with/act around people of different view-points?

For example, today I was talking to a family member today, that Einstein was a theist [2]. How should I have responded to this situation? Should I have told her that he was in fact not a theist, or just ignored it?

Also, this conversation lead to them revealing to me that they believe the world will definitely end on December 21st. How exactly do I respond to such claims?

Act natural as you would normally - try listening and trying to understand their viewpoint rather than trying to push your viewpoint - I dont mean dont debate - debate is useful - try not to push your idea as correct and instead try more to assimilate their point of view - spend time researching and reading... it'll keep you too busy to argue... alot of times when I used to think "heeeey thats not right!" now I think "Heeeeeey I need to think about that!"

On the second - diarise December 22nd and wait it out.

AMH

I have actually learned to not get worked up about it, amazing and took at least 40 years to do. I found sometimes if I thought too much about it, talked about it later, argued for it in my head, then it was harder. like I said, that took 40 years. Some things still get me, like when I am the expert in the room and people still argue for an alternative point of view. It is fine, but when you are getting into my professional territory then have some respect. In that case i sometimes reference my background, although it takes a gentle touch to not come across arrogant. And a casual sense of humor, not bitiing sarcastic, goes a long way.

Of course right now I have an issue at work where i was traning some people and one started saying that at her site I told her it was okay for kids to be outside after it was dark. I adamately disagreed, she is a very black and white thinker and she took my manners since we were talking in front of another staff person to be something very clear about being out in the dark. Oh grrr, there are a couple people who just do not understand what appear to be simple conversations.

taiyaki

All views are just thoughts.

And when you look for thoughts you can't find them.

So why be for or against them?

federica

@taiyaki, Do you talk like this to the greengrocer when he asks whether you want five apples or six?

"Apples are just perception, taste the juicy flesh and it is gone, one apple or six, it's all the same....."

Sometimes i wish you's just shoot craps once in a while..... :rolleyes:

taiyaki

i'm a teacher by trade so conditions have made me like this i swear it haha.

taste is an amazing thing. one taste, two taste. no linkage, dependently originated how amazing! vividly appearing, yet completely liberated. each taste is new and in a way completely insane!

either we share wonder or its just stupid old taste again.

someone has to be the crazy hippy who points to the taste of the apple and goes THIS IS CRAZY.

federica

:facepalm: :shake:

I had to ask....

conradcook

Really that was apples and oranges.

C.

Raven

It's important to remember they're probably thinking the same thing about you.

If it's a matter of life and death, correct gently; otherwise, ask yourself if it really matters.

We used to have a woman in our group of friends who thought she was an "expert" in a lot of areas. She had a "yabut" for everything. She had the "real" explanation for every idea. Parties and nights out turned into lectures and snottiness. People stopped talking. Then they stopped showing up at all. We "broke up with her" about 2 years ago.

She's probably still very (book)smart, but no one will go near her.

Dakini

I suggest that the administrators of the site create an "advice" section.

I second this--great idea!

The fact is that Einstein was not clearly an atheist, nor a theist. (I've studied his writing, having been fascinated by this aspect of him, at one point). He credited some of his scientific insights to something like Divine inspiration, some sort of intuition. And there's his famous quote: "God does not play dice with the Universe." There's room for both views regarding Einstein. Each side can find material in his writing to support their belief.

Depending on the person's mood (the word "adamantly" raises some concern), you might have engaged them in friendly debate, asking why they believe the way they do, and explaining why you see Einstein differently. Or if the person was really clinging to their belief, you could have defused the situation a little by simply saying that Einstein was very interesting on that point, he gave mixed messages, and left it at that.

If someone had told me the world was ending Dec. 21, I'd have said, "Really? Are you worried?" (I can think of much snider responses: "Does that mean we don't have to pay off our debts?" and similar things that wouldn't be helpful.)

patbb

the way i see it is when I am talking with someone, I'm learning about their ideas.

this is my job.

"oh i see. so that's what you think about this."

not ignoring. just learning about their ideas and how they came up with them.
asking questions to make sure i understand their ideas properly.

This is completely unrelated to weather i agree with the ideas or not. Just learning about their ideas.


then if i have ideas that are contradictory to the one they have, i just say something like :

"i see how you make sense of this, but have you considered that "whatever put a wrench in the gears of their idea".
like "have you considered that Einstein did claim that he was a atheist?

or

say something like: I think i understand well what you mean but i see things differently. Here is how i think things work"
...



i use to have the world worse social skills. I've been practicing for a long time to improve but i'm coming from having none so it's still far from being perfect

Zayl

The entirety of my family with the exception of my long absent father is terribly, terribly racist, As well as intolerant of any other faith of any sort to an extreme. When dealing with people who are this ignorant in this way you just have to keep quiet and move on. You cannot argue with fools, especially if there are in a group. And bringing up the difference in our viewpoint (mine being, human is human no matter color/gender etc) Would not solve anything and only cause pain and suffering.

So I've learned to shut up and let them live and die in their own stupidity.