Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Scientific Proof of Reincarnation
jll
Veteran
http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm
Can we believe any of this?
Can we believe any of this?
0
Comments
I am hardly swayed by people listing their credits in order to gain respectability – I could jot down all my qualifications and I would sound like a very respectable and believable individual! It doesn’t mean that someday I wont wake up and decide that I can make money from selling speculation.
It remains that reincarnation is not proved, despite numerous and extensive studies.
Humans find the notion of a final and ultimate death very hard to deal with.
I don't know what the reality is. Just playing devil's advocate.
Even in that situation though an explanation of the mechanism for these memories probably won't arise. But it would open up the field for further research.
I am open to the fact that right now I may suddenly see what truly is and it will be completely different to everything I know - that said, I cant live and do stuff day to day as a human if that was my driver - instead, I take a fuzzy approach and deal with the best approximations that make factual sense to me.
So for me, I have not experienced anything that would lead me to suppose that there is an afterlife or a continuation of consciousness after death - I have seen death - I have never seen anyone come back from that - in that sense it is ultimate - I see people fear it deeply and make up stuff or believe stuff that makes them feel better - that is fine for them - it doesnt work for me - I accept that in all likelihood death is the end full stop.
whether a study done by a scientist is scientific or not.
How do we deal with that? How can you live in peace knowing this is the ultimate? I'm depressed now
What about the Buddha - he did have a skeptical mind but somehow he "saw" an afterlife. how does one explain that?
Also: Consider this. Isn't it a mystery we were ever BORN? Why did we even get a conciousiness in the first place? Aren't we just a collection of atoms that merged together to create a consciousiness? What is there? There is no "I".
How about accepting it? You know you have only ONE life and it maybe short or long. It's best to be compassionate and good in that small life we have. It's a lot better than believing in some sort of afterlife. Which I believes that pushed people to do little or the basic because they believe they get an extra life.
So I don't feel that a belief in rebirth has to mean one doesn't take life seriously. Certainly that can happen though.
The other side of the coin is that belief in an 'ultimate death' (I like that term) can make someone feel like they get out of karma free card so they can do whatever they want without ultimate consequence.
My own view of rebirth is that everything that we consider as being ourselves dies with the body. All our memories, all our possessions, all our family and freinds. The only thing that carries over is the karmic potential. So I suppose there would be some carry over in that if someone cultivates a karmic habit for generosity then there would be lots of potential for one to be a generous person in the next life.
I don't know how, looking at my own mind, it would be possible to achieve complete liberation from my defilements without more than one go at it. Why did the Buddha put such an emphasis on liberation if only 500 people accomplished that at the expense of any kind of life during his time?
Even if we were only to consider the present life - there wouldn't be complete equilibrium. Some people live selfishley yet endure hardship. Others seems to enjoy their lives. The only way for an equilibrium to be established is to have multiple lives.
I will admit though that sometimes you do have karma operating in the current life. Example, study hard adn get good marks.
If you can say that a person who believes in rebirth does so to give themselves comfort then I can say that a person who believes in an ultimate death does so to believe they can avoid the consequences of their actions.
Do you have PROOF? That is the problem. There is no evidence of rebirth. What you are believing is though faith alone.
Personally, I do not want to live my life through faith because it makes you feel good.
Lets try this idea: What if you meet a woman who was abused in childhood and was rapped as in an adult? Is she being punished because she has done in her past life? If so, why do you want to believe bad stuff happen to people because they deserve it on themselves.
I believe that belief in those ideals is horrible.
Life is unfair because it IS unfair. That is something that we must accept. The idea to force people to do things because you tell them to fear the unknown or there are consequences in an afterlife is wrong.
The unfairness of life is an consequence of our actions.
"The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more."
―The Portable Atheist, Christopher Hitchens
I am with Carl Sagan:
“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.”
― Carl Sagan, Billions and Billions
A theist could also say to someone drowning that its simply God's will. I imagine that is also a wrong understanding.
The most obvious example that has been brought up to me, over there, is that those people with handicaps are suffering from karma from a previous existence. And this was specifically targeted to me because I have a cleft lip and palate.
Each person deals with it however is best for them - if you have a way that helps then wonderful - nurture it and share it - if you find something that helps more then nurture that more and share - by nurturing and sharing and pondering you will eventually reach a place where you have 'dealt' with it - that place for me is 'ultimate death'!!
Peace, compassion, love - all pleasantness of life and brotherhood is not dependent on anything after death! Why think of your meal to be served in a tomorrow that you may never wake to when your plate is filled before you now?? Tuck in to life and eat your fill!!
The beauty of free choice is that you can choose to live it moment to moment at any moment totally independent of reason.
The "lucky charm" thing, as you call it, primarily revolves around the amulets that most Thai men and many Thai women wear around their necks. Many, like the one I have, are of a small Buddha figure, while some are famous monks, etc. Many do believe that there is sense of magic in the amulets, and it's quite fun to go to some of the temples that are quite famous for this, and watch some Thais poring over the amulets to find just the right one with the right "power". However, everywhere I have seen that, it's been independent people selling the amulets. Some temples do have Buddhist amulets for sale directly through the temple, but they are not -- as far as I have seen -- attributed to have any special powers. It's all quite fascinating. And I should mention, that many Thais see a Buddhist amulet around the neck as I see it...something to sometimes focus on during mediation, which is very appropriate.