Welcome home! Please contact
lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site.
New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days.
Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
What is your opinion of the "New Atheist" movement?
Comments
From what I'm aware of, most "new atheists" (although I'm not a fan of this term) don't mind religion and believe people can follow whatever they want, but it should be kept to themselves and not made public.
Publicly announcing your religiosity, at least in Christianity, is seen as hypocritical and obnoxious.
In regards to government, putting religion in the public square also takes away fundamental rights to certain citizens.
I believe I made my position clear- I am not remotely anti-atheism, any more than I am pro-religion. I take a neutral stance on both. I went to hear a famous atheist speak the other week because what he has to say is interesting. What I object to is anyone telling anyone else they're wrong or stupid for what they do or don't believe. I'm seeing it in this thread.
And you can satisfy yourself all you want by telling yourself the only people who object are those who have a vested interest and you "got too close to the truth" about their religions. That's actually not the case, which would be clear if you read the thread properly.
You undermine your own argument when you stick your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalaaaa" which of course you accuse anyone religious of doing.
Ooo, somebody is a bit touchy. I was just joking around. God.
But just to make it clear, that last post of yours that you wrote...
No place in these last several posts have I talked about any extreme position. I am talking about the kind of situation where, for example, you go to a party and someone says to you, "Here, meet Ralph. You guys really need to talk about religion!" And then Ralph proceeds to TELL you why all religion is crap, and while he's doing so, he's poking you in the chest.
See, Bekenze, I'm not talking about being gay or any other position. I'm talking about an attitude and a way of telling you something, which actually stifles a real conversation/debate.
Is it the way it is said?
When I discuss religion, I try to keep it as civil as possible, I honestly do, but many people will just put their fingers in their ears and go, "naaa-naa-naaa," like I have been accused of.
Right speech in Buddhism when pointing out a perceived error in view talks about the importance of time and place and the words effectiveness are the most important. If you just belittle someone and tell them they and their beliefs are stupid, with this method it is far more likely that the person will just entrench further behind their views than actually consider an alternate point of view.
So let me say it again.
I'm not expressing what you've experienced. Whatever you've experienced is legitimate to you.
I'm talking about what I've experienced. For example, an atheist getting up in my face and poking me in the chest as he's telling me that my beliefs are stupid.
You're basically saying "I'm right, you're wrong, and if I don't like what you say, well, I'm going to ignore it or belittle you."
It's juvenile and, well, not very Buddhist...
I have? Are you sure you aren't confusing me for someone else?
I just looked through things I posted. I don't recall me belittling anyone or being rude to them.
Pretty sure to have the wrong guy.
I'm a nice, friendly individual.
My wife is a Christian. We don't normally talk about it. Yet she tells me what is being spoken at her church. I think it's crazy they are made to think like this:
Is it wrong to criticize how illogical and crazy that sounds? Hell my life literally believes the world is only 6,000 years old and Dinosaurs and humans lived together. I go WTF. I've been studying Paleontology since I was 10 years old. That is crazy because we have evidence the proves Christianity was wrong in that part.
Oh look! As Buddhists, I guess we can't really criticize this:
or this:
or even how crazy this story was:
In my mind inquiry, questioning and civil debate is healthy. Belittlement, criticism, the twisting of words and ideas in order to make a hyperbolic point aren't. Christians think you are wrong, so why isn't it ok for them to criticize you? Because you're right?
I get this on a daily basis.
Its the belittling and conviction of absolute correctness in the views of hardcore athiests that I object to and I think what others have mainly objected to.
This sounds like a blatant twisting of words for hyperbolic purposes.
Is that offensive? That seems pretty okay to me. That's typically to the extent I will go, unless the other person becomes hostile.
I can understand how stuff like, "Your God is the worst, most deplorable character in all of fiction and you should feel bad for worshiping and giving you life to this being," is a bit rude, but I wouldn't really say stuff like that.
Buddhism:
The belief that some Indian warrior-prince, born from a woman's side, ran away from home and starved himself until he some rice and became enlightened and grew superpowers under a tree.
They believe Sin came from when Eve ate the apple from the tree of knowledge because a talking snake tempted Eve. Because Adam and Eve disobeyed God the cure of original sin was put on man. Because we are so horrible human beings because of this original sin. God had a human son who was also god as well. To sacrifice himself as a form of ransom or scapegoat for human sin. The only way for people to be saved from sin and to be with the side of god. You must believe in Jesus Christ as your master.
This is why some Christians don't accept evolution or Earth being older than 6,000 years old. Because believing the Earth is more than 6,000 years old is basically denying Genesis. If there was no Genesis. There was no Adam and Eve and the fall of man creating original sin. Without original sin the base of Christianity falls apart to some.
Sometimes Atheist use mockery as a tool to get the theists attention. Why? A lot of theists don't want to think and just believe. That is why people think atheists are so bad and evil. We press buttons for which people don't like. Now because 9/11 happen and the internet has happen. The atheists are being more open now.
So my point is that the above picture isn't what they actually believe. Its a distortion used to make a point. My view is that its disrespectful and hurtful. Points can be made without being an ass.
What I don't like, across the board, is having it shoved in my face, or having my own beliefs questioned/evaluated/mocked by other people. I give you the space to do as you choose, and I expect the same back. No problem.
@B5C - why marry someone to tear her down? It doesn't sound very compassionate, or kind, or respectful. Also, the idea that people should validate their beliefs to you is repugnant. You are not the boss of other people, and what they believe in (or not) is their own business. People like you give athiests a bad name.
If a discussion evolves, fine. It doesn't have to end with agreement, but it also doesn't need to get to the point where you belittle the other person's deep beliefs.
My significant other was once a Christian, and from her being with me, is no longer a Christian. She has never been happier (or so she says).
Example: My wife came home from Church and asked her what she listened today. She said a speaker came in saying he was an atheist and there was evidence of god. Then she showed me this as proof of god.
I was like: "Um honey, that is a photo of dust and stars orbiting a super massive back-hole. The X is the where dust is absorbed into the bla...." Wife: "Stop trying to disprove my religion!! Your being an ass!"
Have you been to r/atheism or been to a Humanist group or been to a secular student alliance group?
Also I love my wife so much. I had to lie to her pastor, so she can get marred to the church she wanted to go. Since the church we got married does not marry people who are not Christian. Marriage to non-Christians is viewed horrible.
I had to sit through one year of Christian marriage consoling.
Yeah, I sacrificed a lot for my love. Even though she may not like what I believe, but she still loves me and I love her.
Its about proper time and place, a compassionate consideration of the others feelings and a respect for the other person's right to hold a belief contrary to yours. It sounds like you care about your wife so you're able to play nice with her. She also directly presented you with an argument and so some type of response seems to fit with a proper time and place.
Rather than offering an open line of discussion, respect, and listening, you come off as someone with a massive chip on his shoulder and something to prove. I have compassion for you, but I wouldn't want to be stuck at a cocktail party with you.
This thread is going nowhere, so I'm out of here. Discussion is great, but this is starting to get silly.
At least, the scriptures say you shouldn't.