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Ooops or Shit Sandwiches

AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
edited February 2012 in Buddhism Basics
Throughout life, I find that people are conditioned to view their mistakes or faults extremely negatively. The tendency we have to deal with imperfections are like shit sandwiches. Rather than a supportive "oops" like what one would expect from a loving mentor, what we actually give ourselves, is a shit sandwich to make us feel lousy about ourselves. It is bad enough when others in the world give us these shit sandwiches, but it is much more damaging when we intensify by doing it ourselves. Just imagine what these sandwiches mean to a person's sense of self value when compounded year after year, minute by minute. I suspect prisons are full of people who have had to eat a lot of these sandwiches either provided by their surroundings or by themselves.

Imagine the kind of self-degradation a serial killer would have done in his life. They are so defiled, that they may actually attach themselves to this shit as a form of identity. They may even pride themselves on the horrendous things they do. It can take the form of empowering themselves with this in-your-face attitude towards others.

On the other hand, a loving, kind and compassionate hand could have made such a difference. Not always but I suspect more often than not. Considering ones faults as an oops from the time one is very young, sounds to me like one of the most compassionate things one can do. Self compassion can be so healing.

I am not suggesting that we do not need deterrents such as prison or punishment when a person hurts others, merely that these people need kindness and forgiveness more than deterrents. I think of a television show where victims families confront a person who has hurt them or their families, and forgiveness is so uplifting not only for the perpetrator, but for the damaged party as well.

As difficult as this might be for some to accept, considering sins as unforgiveable does not seem to benefit society, the victim or the perpetrator as much as forgiveness does.

Comments

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I usually take mine with a side of shame and a nice tall glass of poor self esteem.
  • I usually take mine with a side of shame and a nice tall glass of poor self esteem.
    Ahh I am finally tossing the hair shirt for a lower form of self flaggelation,

  • My dad used to ask me how I felt on a number scale and I told him the number was how many bowls of shit I would eat to feel better. Some days I couldn't eat a single one.
  • That talks to the need to feel guilty. The Dalai Lama actually had difficulty understanding the concept of guilt. Is guilt really a useful emotion? It is a question worth considering.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    That talks to the need to feel guilty. The Dalai Lama actually had difficulty understanding the concept of guilt. Is guilt really a useful emotion? It is a question worth considering.
    I've found that tibetans in general don't really get this. Apologies to the Christians but I think it stems from the concept of original sin. The concept is that we are bad by nature and sin will lead us to hell. Since there is nothing we can do to rid ourselves of sin we deny or hate on negative parts of ourselves.

    A culture that has Buddhism as its foundation believes that negativities are only temporary and that we can do things to rid ourselves of them. So in that context guilt or shame serve no purpose.

    I guess maybe this is just one brand of Christianity that was useful to keep people dependent upon the clergy. There are Christians that focus more on God's love for all. The negative brand of Christianity is the one I grew up in, not in an evangelical way but in a self loathing way.
  • http://doorsandsardines.tumblr.com/post/8111056301

    An example of how the Dalai Lama deals with guilt there. And a little further discussed in the following:

    "Well for questions of this nature, I always turn to my Buddhist nun Pema Chodron for some un-sugar-coated life advice. Here is what Pema suggests. Imagine a moment in your life right now that you regret. It could be from yesterday or twenty years ago but I’m sure we all can think of at least one guilt ridden moment in our lives. Pema instructs us to think of this moment, this one act, like a layer of cement going over our head. It’s thick and gross and heavy and smelly. This much is true. We cant change that. However, by obsessing and concentrating on the event over and over again, what we are choosing to do is continually add more and more layers of heavy, thick smelly cement. Each time we obsess, we add another layer and trust me, we can keep adding layers all our lives until we are literally being buried underneath our past. And here is the aha moment. Any extra layer you add is not only unnecessary but completely inefficient. A freaking waste of your time. You cannot change the past nor remove the first layer of cement but you can choose NOT to entomb yourself in a lifetime of extra unnecessary layers. So next time you are in the car, day dreaming over and over again about that day ten years ago, just say outloud the word “cement.” Just by acknowledging that you are in the process of layering, you have taken the first step towards living with your guilt while keeping your heart open at the same time. Good luck spiritual warriors!!"
  • Throughout life, I find that people are conditioned to view their mistakes or faults extremely negatively.
    Is there a rare astrological formation this weekend? We have two threads on a similar topic at once, there must be something in the air. I disagree with the above, if it is intended as a broad statement. It's true that some people are conditioned in childhood to regard themselves negatively, if they were raised in a dysfunctional family. People can de-condition themselves, though.

    In my observation, some people are completely unaware of their faults, and think nothing of doing wrong to others. Others are existing on such a survival level, psychological survival, that they believe that anything goes as long as it helps them survive and thrive. Con artists think this way, I've noticed. Highly manipulative people are almost impossible to treat or rehabilitate, because they only know one way to survive. They use others' compassion to their advantage.

    There is no single formula that will save everyone. Forgiveness can be powerful, but may not work for all personality types. I feel there is no question that the criminal justice system overall would benefit from more emphasis on compassion and rehabilitation. The privatization of the prison system, turning incarceration into a business, is taking this issue in the wrong direction. The business model now depends on incarcerating a growing number of the population, and keeping them incarcerated. The criminal justice system in the U.S. has become a samsara factory.

  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    edited February 2012
    I wonder what the Buddhist approach to psychopaths would be. I suspect it would teach compassion for all beings so I consider that as the single formula that will save everyone.

    Perhaps restructuring the way one thinks and developing compassion may be an answer for psychopaths. I know western medicine considers psychopaths as incureable but I am not convinced western medicine contains all of the answers that other approaches, such as Buddhism, may have.
  • edited February 2012
    You have a good idea for a worthwhile experiment, but I question whether all psychological types would respond the same to a Buddhism-based therapy program, or whether all would even be receptive to it. I'm reminded of an old joke: Q. How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change.
    ;)
    There are Dharma programs in prisons around the world, but AFAIK only selected inmates participate. What the selection criteria are, and what the success rate is, I don't know.
  • Interesting articles when you google the Dalai Lama and psychopaths. There are actually some people who accuse him of being a psychopath himself. LOL

    Gotta keep going on this though. It is really interesting.
  • Holy smokes, according to this article, Buddha told people it was okay to kill psychopaths. Not exactly what I expected to find.

    http://www.energyenhancement.org/The-psychopath-and-the-Buddhist-icchantika.htm
  • edited February 2012
    Holy smokes, according to this article, Buddha told people it was okay to kill psychopaths. Not exactly what I expected to find.

    http://www.energyenhancement.org/The-psychopath-and-the-Buddhist-icchantika.htm
    "A psychopath...can destroy a business or ruin a nation." What does this mean for the Republican Party?

    If we consider that psychopaths are a danger to society, it could be considered a compassionate act to kill them. I'd like to see the line in the sutra in question to verify the Buddha quote.

    You have me intrigued now, @AllbuddhaBound. I found the comment section on this site especially interesting.
    http://www.neurologicalcorrelates.com/wordpress/2009/02/17/the-dalai-lama-gets-involved-in-the-neuroscience-of-compassion/

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Holy smokes, according to this article, Buddha told people it was okay to kill psychopaths. Not exactly what I expected to find.

    http://www.energyenhancement.org/The-psychopath-and-the-Buddhist-icchantika.htm
    Eye opening stuff. The sutra passages never actually equate an icchantika with a psychopath, that was done by the author of the piece. So I don't think we can safely say its ok to kill psychopaths.
  • He did say it's ok to kill, though. Even icchantikas are sentient beings, unless the Buddha put them in a separate category. "Eye opening stuff", indeed!
  • Very interesting. I have studied and experienced people with psychopathic tendancies, maybe not a full blown one but possibly. They cover really really well! You think you will see it but often you don't right away.

    So I was confusing compassion with ignoring my gut feelings. I am pretty sure I am close to being done with that. I will make gross generalizations but some groups of people have learned to be manipulative to get their needs met. I don't feel I can help them where I used to think I really could, I even thought they wanted the help to truly change. Not so much.

    One hint I have now is that if people tell you about the things that are not good they had to do because of circumstance (without real remorse) they probably are okay with it and are more playing a sympathy card on you than asking for help to change. People who want support to make changes will go to a teacher or a counselor or minister, not their friend they just met.

    My learning going forward is this, we cultivate empathy and kindness. Women are especially trained to express this kindness in most cultures. But when your gut feeling tells you something bad about a person it is not lack of compassion or empathy that is necessarily telling you that. As one of the articles pointed out, letting someone or something into your life that is evil in order to transform that is letting in the chance that they will instead infect you with the evil.
  • "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes."-----Oscar Wilde
  • Oops, forgot one important point. Sometimes we look for someone who has what we lack. So a person who is empathy impaired (how I see narcissists and others) may actually look for a partner who has a high level of empathy and compassion hoping to either take some of that on or to copy better. Since they are good at this, and the compassionate/empathetic person may not realize that others are not the same as them, it works.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited February 2012
    So I was confusing compassion with ignoring my gut feelings.
    Oh no, don't do that! Your gut feelings can save your life!

    That speaker someone posted recently, the cell biologist, said our receptors are constantly taking in info from the environment, and filtering it, saving what they think will help us survive, and throwing away the rest. So the gut feeling can come from subtle cues our receptors pick up, that we're not consciously aware of.

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