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Does anyone know of any Buddhists having dialogue?
Jeffrey
Veteran
The Dalai Lama has been prominent in participating in discussions with the scientific community. But my question is if their have been any developement of Dharma for schizophrenic people? Can schizophrenic people become enlightened as they are? Or not? Anyone read anything on this?
Or what passing thoughts does anyone have?
I post this slightly to explain myself but I also want to stop feeling like crap like there is something wrong with me. I'm tired of it.
Or what passing thoughts does anyone have?
I post this slightly to explain myself but I also want to stop feeling like crap like there is something wrong with me. I'm tired of it.
0
Comments
For those who would accuse me of 'warm & fuzzy' thinking and that this research has little relevance to our work with persons with schizophrenia, I would highly recommend the phenomenological research on recovery from severe and chronic schizophrenias being done by Larry Davidson and his colleagues at Yale University in New Haven. In his "Living Outside Mental Illness: Qualitative Studies of Recovery in Schizophrenia" published by New York University Press in 2003, Davidson has demonstrated the importance in recovery for the patient to have the experience of being able to care for another human being as well as feeling deeply cared for outside of more clinical, institutional forms of caring. This is in line with what such schizophrenia researchers as John Strauss and Courtenay Harding have been long advocating: the co-construction of a viable, functional & valued sense of self along with the opportunity for social inclusion (as opposed to social exclusion and stigmatization).
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Outside-Mental-Illness-Schizophrenia/dp/0814719430
In any case I always like to give when I can. It's just the way I am. I went to New Orleans with some friends and we drank a lot and the friends of friends who took ecstacy made themselves vulnerable and said "that's just the way you are?" And I said yes. Another friend poured a beer on my head and un-surprisingly I poured one on his head and he was mad at me.
I do feel sad at being isolated but it's better than the distortions I get sometimes and the main motivation of isolation is to prevent going into the Bardos and experiencing distortions of the world. It makes me wonder what view of emptiness is correct? I perceive that the escalation of anti-miracles in my life is probably from bad karma of head injuries and bad DNA. And stealing candy and daydreaming. U reaallly deserve this. I once wished someone die and they did eventually. And I fear people will die. And then I think wrong thoughts.
And as far as i know there is no evidence that your thoughts have such an impact on life that it causes someone else death. If you wish someone bad things the only one that is hurt is yourself because you have negative thoughts. You dont have to feel bad because you had such thoughts, just remember yourself that the only harm you are creating trough such thoughts is harm to yourself and because there is no good reason to harm yourself you can just stop with it.
There is not much hurry.
If in day to day life you lead a good life, honesty, with love, with compassion, with less selfishness, then automatically it will lead to Nirvana."
http://www.rudyh.org/dalai-lama-quotes-quotations.htm
Jeffrey, you are getting ahead of yourself (as are many others on this board). You are asking a question that cannot be answered. We don't know what will happen. We don't know what enlightenment is, and which are the circumstances for attaining it or not.
Why does it matter, how does the answer effect what you do in an hour or tomorrow?
People study and think - and build a huge Buddhist encyclopedia in their heads, but where is the practical application in everyday life?
You can do whatever is possible for you within your family and circle of friends, and for yourself and feel happy. What I'm getting at is in practical terms of observing the 8 fold path, you can be as effective as the next person - and that's what matters on a day to day basis. I'm not overlooking the challenge of schizophrenia, but maybe you can clarify how your daily practice is different from other people's because of it.
I did find that there is info on "Buddhism and Schizophrenia" on the net. Did you google it?
Provided he makes and wins an argument about Buddhism with those who live there, any wondering monk can remain in a Zen temple. If he is defeated, he has to move on.
In a temple in the northern part of Japan two brother monks were dwelling together. The elder one was learned, but the younger one was stupid and had but one eye.
A wandering monk came and asked for lodging, properly challenging them to a debate about the sublime teachings. The elder brother, tired that day from much studying, told the younger one to take his place. "Go and request the dialogue in silence," he cautioned.
So the young monk and the stranger went to the shrine and sat down.
Shortly afterwards the traveler rose and went in to the elder brother and said: "Your young brother is a wonderful fellow. He defeated me."
"Relate the dialogue to me," said the elder one.
"Well," explained the traveler, "first I held up one finger, representing Buddha, the enlightened one. So he held up two fingers, signifying Buddha and his teaching. I held up three fingers, representing Buddha, his teaching, and his followers, living the harmonious life. Then he shook his clenched fist in my face, indicating that all three come from one realization. Thus he won and so I have no right to remain here." With this, the traveler left.
"Where is that fellow?" asked the younger one, running in to his elder brother.
"I understand you won the debate."
"Won nothing. I'm going to beat him up."
"Tell me the subject of the debate," asked the elder one.
"Why, the minute he saw me he held up one finger, insulting me by insinuating that I have only one eye. Since he was a stranger I thought I would be polite to him, so I held up two fingers, congratulating him that he has two eyes. Then the impolite wretch held up three fingers, suggesting that between us we only have three eyes. So I got mad and started to punch him, but he ran out and that ended it!"
the wind blows foul of existing nature
returning our assumptions to the great source
clearly the impermanence of ground
It sounds like you're saying what someone with mental illness perceives is real just not what everyone else agrees is real. Doesn't there have to be some agreed upon convention or can we all just make up whatever we want and believe it's true?
To conclude with a more direct answering of your question, although I find the underlying principles I am trying to express to be of primary importance; "some agreed upon convention" or "shared reality" cannot be said to objectively exist, but rather we all live in our own reality-tunnels. Living in reality-tunnels that we can share with others so as to meet that need for objective validation is important, and serves its purpose. I think it is important that we put these constructs into perspective, though. Our ways of looking at all of this is clouded by "traditional" ways of thinking in society.
People with delusions can think things are one way but there real laws of the universe or reality that don't change because of how we view them.
So I partly agree that subjective reality is where the world 'happens' but not entirely.
Maybe the chair/bagle example was a bit off but someone with mental illness believing that they can fly or perceiving harm in kindness are very real examples.
And how does the theorizing that may be correct on an extremely abstract level help in this particular moment in time when the OP wants practical help?
Also, there are varying degrees of mental illnesses. IMO a mental illness is objectively present the same way a physical illness is, and while there are a lot of questionable techniques of easing the problem, it is a disservice to the person who is afflicted to deny his reality, which amounts to not taking him/her seriously.
I think you mean well, and are sharing what works for you, but you forget IMO that people *are* different.
Nonetheless, I'll let the thread be. Carry on :thumbsup:
I think it was John Wayne Gacy that heard a dog tell him to kill people? What you were saying sounds like since all reality is in one's head and subjective that this indeed was the case.
In Buddhism there is something called two truths doctrine. It says that there is an ultimate truth of emptiness or rigpa but that truth doesn't deny the conventional truth of the world of phenomena. So fire burns, knives cut and dogs die the subjective part is our reaction and perception of those dependantly arisen things.