Supernatural or Supernormal

person

supernatural
1. of or relating to things that cannot be explained according to natural laws
2. characteristic of or caused by or as if by a god; miraculous
3. of, involving, or ascribed to occult beings
4. exceeding the ordinary; abnormal

supernormal
1. in excess of the normal or average: supernormal faculties; supernormal production.
2. lying beyond normal or natural powers of comprehension: supernormal intimations.

When talking about extraordinary phenomena and experiences I much prefer the use of supernormal. If what we consider as supernatural actually occurs then I don't think it can occur outside of the laws of nature. If it exists there must be a law or principle that explains how it functions even if we don't currently know what that is. Supernormal allows for the operation of natural laws it just describes the phenomena as occuring outside our everyday 'normal' experience.

Dakini

I agree 100%. "Supernatural" just means they haven't found the scientific explanation yet. :thumbsup:

Bekenze

Right. Anything "supernatural," meaning things beyond the natural world, does not exist. If something exists, it is natural, whether we can explain it or not. For example, if magic is a real thing, it isn't supernatural, but a natural thing, because it is part of the universe (nature).

Although, that's using the term very narrowly.

person

Although, that's using the term very narrowly.

I'm not trying to argue here but which term, supernormal or supernatural, and could you explain more about how it uses the term narrowly?

Bekenze

I mean that the way I used the term supernatural, using it to mean "beyond nature," is using it narrowly. More liberally it can just be used to mean, "an unexplainable phenomenon," among other things.

Dakini

For example, if magic is a real thing, it isn't supernatural, but a natural thing, because it is part of the universe (nature).

Some/much of what we call "magic" now is completely natural. I think the term "magic" stigmatizes relatively ordinary phenomena.

B5C

Some/much of what we call "magic" now is completely natural. I think the term "magic" stigmatizes relatively ordinary phenomena.

*Rolls eyes* Yeah, Psychics and speaking to the dead is a legit thing and science has yet to prove it. lol

person

14th century man: *Rolls eyes* Yeah, the earth revolves around the sun and disease are caused by tiny creatures that invade our bodies. lol

Dakini

Science is in the process of proving some of it: entanglement theory, and other advances in quantum physics. Plenty of valid testing has been done proving precognition, and other psi phenomena. More and more scientists, MD's and psychologists are studying and writing about this. See book: "Entangled Minds", for a thorough listing and discussion of these studies. (Author is a physicist.) The day is coming in which people will have to give up their prejudice against these things.

B5C

14th century man: *Rolls eyes* Yeah, the earth revolves around the sun and disease are caused by tiny creatures that invade our bodies. lol

Yet, we still can not prove physics and talking to the dead as true. Every time we find an physic or a person who talks to the dead. We find out their a fraud.

person

14th century man: *Rolls eyes* Yeah, the earth revolves around the sun and disease are caused by tiny creatures that invade our bodies. lol

Yet, we still can not prove physics and talking to the dead as true. Every time we find an physic or a person who talks to the dead. We find out their a fraud.

So my point has been then don't believe it, but don't push your beliefs, or non beliefs in this case, on me.

B5C

I guess James Randi was a horrible person crushing the hopes and dreams of people who want to talk to the dead or be healed by god.

James Randi is my hero:

Dakini

Yet, we still can not prove physics and talking to the dead as true. Every time we find an physic or a person who talks to the dead. We find out their a fraud.

We can't prove "physics" as true? Do you mean psychics? I don't know of any physicists who are frauds. Physics is gradually arriving at an explanation for psi phenomena.

Jeffrey

Maybe two observers collapse the wavefunction in collective. And the science mandala is more powerful. There are seals to keep society safe and functional. I should know

So Christ may have been part of a very powerful mandala. Call him an asura or angel or whateverj.

ihepf

Yet, we still can not prove physics and talking to the dead as true. Every time we find an physic or a person who talks to the dead. We find out their a fraud.

We can't prove "physics" as true? Do you mean psychics? I don't know of any physicists who are frauds. Physics is gradually arriving at an explanation for psi phenomena.

I doubt physics is gradually arriving at a point where it explains psi phenomena, because it hasnt even arrived at a point where psi phenomena are seen as existing.

B5C

We can't prove "physics" as true? Do you mean psychics? I don't know of any physicists who are frauds. Physics is gradually arriving at an explanation for psi phenomena.

That was a typo on my part. Damn auto-correct.

Dakini

I doubt physics is gradually arriving at a point where it explains psi phenomena, because it hasnt even arrived at a point where psi phenomena are seen as existing.

You'd be surprised. There are physicists doing research and writing books about this. Times are changing. Fortunately.

ihepf

I doubt physics is gradually arriving at a point where it explains psi phenomena, because it hasnt even arrived at a point where psi phenomena are seen as existing.

You'd be surprised. There are physicists doing research and writing books about this. Times are changing. Fortunately.

Yeah, and there are buddhist who writes book about buddhism without supernormal. That doesnt mean buddhism as a whole is arriving at a point where it stops believing in these things.

Physics tries to describe and explain the behaviour of that which can be reproduced in experiments. I dont know of any convincing reproducible experiments that show the existing of psi phenomena.

Dakini

There have been some reproducible experiments. Seek and ye shall find.
One type of reproducible experiment is in the area of precognition. Guessing different types of cards. They think that evolution favored people who could foresee events to some degree, an obviously useful skill for survival. There have been other reliable studies as well.

Dakini

Here's a report of one such experiment. This site is fun to explore.
http://noetic.org/research/project/seeing-future/

ihepf

There have been some reproducible experiments. Seek and ye shall find.
One type of reproducible experiment is in the area of precognition. Guessing different types of cards. They think that evolution favored people who could foresee events to some degree, an obviously useful skill for survival. There have been other reliable studies as well.

Its usual that the person that is claiming something extraordinary provides the evidence, in this case at least some links...

I think evolution would have favored people that could throw fireballs at their enemies. I have yet to witness a kame hame ha.

person

Some research by Rupert Sheldrake

The sense of being stared at:
http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers/papers/staring/

Animals that know when their owners are coming home:
http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers/papers/staring/

Thinking of someone just before they phone and other experiements:
http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers/papers/telepathy/index.html

Note: Before you google skeptic Sheldrake these are just his experiments on psychic phenomena not his hypothesis on morphic resonance or morphic fields.

Here's a video posted recently by @LeonBasin by Michael Persinger the creator of the God helmet on his research into psychic phenomena.

person

Oops heres a link to the animal one:

http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers/papers/animals/

Dandelion

Here's a report of one such experiment. This site is fun to explore.
http://noetic.org/research/project/seeing-future/

Hi @Dakini
Just reading through the 'About' section of that website... I remember watching Edgar Mitchell (who founded IONS) on 'In the Shawdow of the Moon'.. and he talked about an epiphany he felt he had during the Apollo 14 Mission. If you haven't seen that documentary I highly recommend it.

swaydam

The word 'nature' only points to something specific when it is compared to something other than itself. Once something is universalized, it loses its distinctive meaning.
.....

swaydam

So, try and isolate the quality called 'natural' supposedly present in all things. It can't be done.