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The Video Tolle Doesn't Want YOU to See!

DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
edited February 2012 in General Banter

Comments

  • Interesting, kudos to her for making this video and thanks for sharing Leon. I may do some more research into Tolle myself.
  • She puts forth an excellent view. I've actually wondered that about Buddhism itself- if it's all in mind, how to reconcile these physical and material problems.
  • She would be the one in the airplane with the masks dropping, feeling too guilty to put her mask on first so that she could help others.
  • edited February 2012
    In one respect this is preaching to the choir. I already know this, and I credit countless other people with also knowing this.

    But, what I'll never say to those people is: 'why aren't you doing anything about it?' just in case they turn back to me and say: 'why aren't you doing anything about it?'

    So obviously assuming people aren't aware of conspiracies and falsehoods and misdeeds, and helping people to be aware of these matters, doesn't change the facts.

    But why ask someone connected with Buddhism? Why not ask anyone the same question? So people don't fall into the trap of apathy? Well, how much does it fall upon the teacher to make sure everyone has their head screwed on correctly? The students approach for different reasons, but still the small percentage of apathetic Buddhists in the world is a drop in the ocean compared to worldwide indifference. But is it even fair to suggest this? To what extent are we all victims of our own circumstances?

    Still, an admirable attempt at a shortcut, even if I do say so myself.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited February 2012
    well thats the basic objection to Buddhism from an outsider point of view, nothing to do with Tolle per se.

    it's been asked a thousand times and answered in every possible way.

    A basic introduction to Buddhism will answer that.

    You don't tell people (or yourself) to stop thinking about something to stop suffering. that is not the point.
    The point is to begin to understand and accept the world as it is. Which implies that we usually don't, and this delusion about reality creates much more suffering than necessary.
    Like believing the moon is out to get you, it is a delusion, the moon is just there, sitting pretty in the sky.
    But if you believe it's out to get you, you will feel fear and stress, trying to avoid it, getting away from it...

    Then begin to realize some of the realities about our self, who we truly are.
    And realizing our true nature and losing our delusions about ourselves and the world is very liberating...
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Interesting, kudos to her for making this video and thanks for sharing Leon. I may do some more research into Tolle myself.
    Welcome!
  • That is a really good analogy, patbb, thank you. I never thought of it that way. :)
  • At first I thought, "hey, I'm joining her sangha!" It's refreshing to hear a Buddhist say we need to contribute to righting wrongs in the world, to the ending of suffering. I've never heard any teacher/guru/lama/roshi/monk say that. I've heard complaints from a number of people about how their teacher shrugs at suffering and just says, "it's their karma". So this video got my attention.

    Then I looked up the organization that made the video, www.equalmoney.org. This video is actually an advertisement for the organization, using a critique of Tolle as a flimsy basis for putting out the organization's message. Check it out yourselves.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited February 2012
    At first I thought, "hey, I'm joining her sangha!" It's refreshing to hear a Buddhist say we need to contribute to righting wrongs in the world, to the ending of suffering. I've never heard any teacher/guru/lama/roshi/monk say that. I've heard complaints from a number of people about how their teacher shrugs at suffering and just says, "it's their karma". So this video got my attention.
    i think it's just not their jobs to do this.

    i think their jobs is to guide us toward understanding ourselves and reality which result in becoming peaceful beings.

    then what the peaceful beings will do is up to them, probably they'll do good things once they are not bound by greed/hatred/fears so much.
    and the more peaceful beings there are the less avoidable suffering there will be everywhere.

    i think it's just not their jobs to do this.
    in the same way as it is not the job of a physic professor to contribute to righting wrongs in the world.
    his job is to teach physics.
    the job of the spiritual teacher is to teach about the path of self-realization.
    (He could have any kind of silly idea about politic or humanitarian strategies i don't care, as long as he is a great spiritual teacher)

    it seems to me that people are looking for leaders in their spiritual guides.
    imagine if spiritual guides would actually take on these "jobs".
    We would complain about them doing so, alot of false gurus would lead people out of greed for power (there are already so many doing this) etc...
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited February 2012
    Oh. Funny, I thought Buddhism was about compassion and ending suffering for all sentient beings. Oh well. *shrug*
  • Oh. Funny, I thought Buddhism was about compassion and ending suffering for all sentient beings. Oh well. *shrug*
    yes, in this way:
    - teach the dharma
    - and the more peaceful beings there are the less avoidable suffering there will be everywhere until there isn't any anymore.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited February 2012
    Oh. Funny, I thought Buddhism was about compassion and ending suffering for all sentient beings. Oh well. *shrug*
    yes, in this way:
    - teach the dharma
    - and the more peaceful beings there are the less avoidable suffering there will be everywhere until there isn't any anymore.
    Oh, is that the reasoning behind it? I'd always wondered about that. There's always been this question, occasionally discussed here, about whether Buddhism is activist, or more passive (or a limited sort of activism, as you describe). Is your point that what the peaceful beings chose to do once they've achieved a level of clarity, is up to them? Whether they choose to spend their lives meditating and blissing, teaching, or on the other hand, doing charitable work, is so much Buddhism's concern? Just trying to clarify.

  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    *Sigh* The videomaker reminds me of my "Must enlighten people to the truth about the evils of capitalism" or "Angry Anarchist" (as my friends like to say) days, and the really self-righteous, preachy people I'd meet at all the anti-war rallies and similar events. And lots of people in my sociology department for that matter. Always critical, always trying to tear down others' understandings of things. It's really draining.

    At first I thought, "hey, I'm joining her sangha!" It's refreshing to hear a Buddhist say we need to contribute to righting wrongs in the world, to the ending of suffering. I've never heard any teacher/guru/lama/roshi/monk say that. I've heard complaints from a number of people about how their teacher shrugs at suffering and just says, "it's their karma". So this video got my attention.

    Then I looked up the organization that made the video, www.equalmoney.org. This video is actually an advertisement for the organization, using a critique of Tolle as a flimsy basis for putting out the organization's message. Check it out yourselves.
    Where did you get that the videomaker is Buddhist? She didn't make any references, nor does her Youtube channel mention anything about Buddhism.


    I do agree with you that Buddhists (and followers of other belief systems) should work compassionately to help society. However, I don't think it's necessarily a requirement, per se. Allow me to explain...

    Many, if not all, religious systems focus on the spiritual. Material comforts are not required to have faith in Jesus, take refuge in the Three Jewels, etc etc. I believe that this is part of the reason why many lower-income people are somewhat religious, and many poorer parts of the world (relative to the West) still have strong religious practices. Spiritual beliefs go beyond material wealth, which is why they are so appealing. So
    theoretically speaking, one could be content even if one lost their legs and is living on welfare, so long as one has sufficient "faith" in their religious practice and little attachment to the material world. Buddhism is about ending suffering, yes, but not necessarily material suffering.

    However, this is obviously problematic, especially in the modern age where inequality and suffering are not tolerated (nor should it be). Like the videomaker said, saying that suffering is "mind only" to people who have experienced great trial is not always skillful, and certainly doesn't help change their situation.
    BUT
    I think this is a case of two worlds colliding - the reality of living as a material being and society's material needs and expectations from an individual vs. the spiritual ideal of being a lotus growing in the mire.

    Since Buddhism is all about the "Middle Path," the way I approach this sort of thing is by focusing on doing my own bit to help others, spreading the Dharma, and encouraging others (Buddhist or not) to do the same (okay well probably just Buddhists for the Dharma part). Helping others with their material suffering can be covered through volunteering or donation or other activities, whereas the spiritual suffering can be covered through propagating the Dharma. Let people decide for themselves which (Dharma vs. material aid, or both) helps them, and let other Buddhists decide what they are comfortable doing.

    There will always be people comfortable being in a more activist role and those comfortable with quietly working on their own lives, doing their little bit here and there to help others. I don't see the need to say "All Buddhists HAVE TO be activists!" or the opposite.
  • I'm an animal rights activist. They can't speak for themselves, they need us. I'm not aggressive about it but I am passionate. I believe the way our culture treats animals as objects rather than beings with feelings is disgraceful.

    I believe this commitment will intensify as my Buddhist practice increases. :)
  • I cannot change the world. I can only change myself and, in so doing, change the world.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2012
    I'm an animal rights activist.
    Great! Giving voice to the voiceless! :)

    @invincible_summer I didn't say the video maker was Buddhist. I said the video makers are a non-profit with an agenda. The speaker looks and talks like a Buddhist nun, and discusses Buddhist concepts. Maybe she's an EqualMoney nun, lol!

    It sounds like you misunderstood me; I didn't say Buddhists have to be activists. I said it was refreshing to hear someone speak about the need for that, rather than turn a cold shoulder, as some teachers do, I'm told, and chalk people's suffering up to karma. I'm in total agreement with you, summer.

  • I'm an animal rights activist.
    Great! Giving voice to the voiceless! :)

    @invincible_summer I didn't say the video maker was Buddhist. I said the video makers are a non-profit with an agenda. The speaker looks and talks like a Buddhist nun, and discusses Buddhist concepts. Maybe she's an EqualMoney nun, lol!

    It sounds like you misunderstood me; I didn't say Buddhists have to be activists. I said it was refreshing to hear someone speak about the need for that, rather than turn a cold shoulder, as some teachers do, I'm told, and chalk people's suffering up to karma. I'm in total agreement with you, summer.

    Agree. I understand the idea of karma but if I see someone (and to me, a non-human animal is a "someone") suffering and there's a chance I can help relieve that suffering or at the very least not contribute to it, I feel that's my responsibility. I could never just walk away and coldly say, "Oh, well. They chose this path." No.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran


    Agree. I understand the idea of karma but if I see someone (and to me, a non-human animal is a "someone") suffering and there's a chance I can help relieve that suffering or at the very least not contribute to it, I feel that's my responsibility. I could never just walk away and coldly say, "Oh, well. They chose this path." No.
    Forgive me for being blunt, but how would an animal "choose" a path?

    Also, would you not agree that walking away could sometimes be the more skillful thing to do (i.e. "at least not contributing to suffering")? What if the money we give to a homeless person is used to buy narcotics or something to harm someone else? I know that the initial intention would be "good," but the suffering is still there, if not increased, in the person whom we were trying to help.
  • I'm new to Buddhism, but I've read many things which indicate through rebirth each animal has karmically been born into his/her current form. That's what I mean, more or less. But regardless, if I can help relieve the suffering of a defenceless animal, I will do so.

    As for giving money to a homeless person, I agree with you. Choosing one's battles and so on. And yes, sometimes walking away is the more skillful thing. But I don't mistake indifference for equanimity. If I see a cat or dog starving on the street, I'm not going to leave it there. I'm going to try to help.
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