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Is the Dharma Deteriorating or Improving?

personperson Don't believe everything you thinkThe liminal space Veteran
edited March 2012 in Philosophy
"So it happens Kassapa, when beings deteriorate and the true Dhamma vanishes: then there are more rules and fewer Arahanths. There will be, however, no vanishing of the Dhamma until a sham Dhamma arises in the world. But when a sham Dhamma arises in the world, there will be more rules and fewer Arahanths."

"But Kassapa, it is not a cataclysm of the four elements - earth, water, fire and air that make the Dhamma disappear. Nor is the reason for its disappearance similar to the overloading of a ship that causes it to sink. It is rather the presence of five detrimental attitudes that causes the obscuration and disappearance of the Dhamma."

"These are the five: It is the lack of respect and regard for the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha, the training, and for meditative concentration on the part of monks, nuns, and male and female devotees. But so long as there is respect and regard for these five things the Dhamma will remain free of obscuration and will not disappear."

-- (Gotama Buddha - Samyutta Nikya)

The old world view is that the Dharma from the Buddha is a pure teaching and that over time it will slowly decay and weaken until it dissapears.

In the west, since the enlightenment, the view of knowledge and ideas is that they are constantly being refined and improved. Is this the case with the Dharma as well?

In my opinion, overall, it is in decay. My reason for this is that I believe the Buddha had a direct realization and understanding which he then taught from his own experience. He didn't come up with a brilliant idea which is open to further development and refinement like a purely intellectual pursuit would be.

The nature of Buddha's enlightenment is debated so I think the opening question is also subject to differing views.

There is also the case of cultural adaptation and I haven't really tried to think through any impact there. Nor do I see it as a steady decline there are low periods and periods of renewal. I see the current state of the Dharma in the world as a period of renewal, where various traditions are now comparing notes and figuring out how to best present the teachings to westerners causing them to dig deeper in their understanding than they've had to in the more recent past.

Any thoughts or opinions?

Comments

  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited March 2012
    The core teachings of the Buddha are there for all to see if they wish, they neither improve or deteriorate, the teachings that may have been added after the Buddhas death are not in my opinion relevant when it comes to practice. At the end of the day Its down to the individual to asses if they agree or disagree with these core teachings, and as a Buddhist I agree with the core teachings of the Buddha, otherwise I guess I would not label myself a Buddhist.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    I met a Tibetan Lama who gave a Dharma talk. Damn my hazy memory but one thing I do recall is he told us that we are just entering the Dharma ending age now.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    *Tibetan Rinpoche Lama :D
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Other than that I don't have an opinion to share... not that that's my opinion
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited March 2012
    I met a Tibetan Lama who gave a Dharma talk. Damn my hazy memory but one thing I do recall is he told us that we are just entering the Dharma ending age now.
    I disagree with the Tibetan Lama, It is well known what teachings scholars dispute that the Buddha taught. The core teachings of the Buddha are not in dispute. As I have stated the Buddhas core teachings have been around for thousands of years, they have not changed. The 4NT have not changed in this time, the N8P has not changed in this time, the teachings on karma and dependent arising have not changed in this time. If one takes the time to study Buddhism and its history, it is clear to see that these are the Buddhas core teachings, that have been taught since Buddhas time. When the murkiness is cleared and the commentaries from others are drowned out it is easy to see that the Buddhas teachings are alive and well in the 21st century.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    @zidangus I guess I see the Dharma as more than the words passed down. The real Dharma to me is in the transformation and realization in someone's mind.

    The sutras and commentaries could exist for thousands of more years but if no one put them into practice I would consider the Dharma to be dead at that point.

    So the part that I view as deteriorating is not the words but the Dharma in people's minds.
  • So the part that I view as deteriorating is not the words but the Dharma in people's minds.
    Do you mean in conjunction with, and as a result of, the modernized, fast-paced world in which we all live now?

    I'd say that the application of dharma has obviously changed throughout time, and ours might well be the hardest age - because of all of the distractions we have 24/7 - to apply the seminal tenets of Buddhist practice to our daily lives.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited March 2012
    @person oh I see what you mean now :) This is a harder question to answer. All I can say is, as long as the teachings are there in some form at least, the potential for an initial spark of interest can be ignited in someone, which may then progress to that realization of which you speak. After all the Buddha taught the right path, but its up to the individual to follow it and experience it for themselves.

    There seems to be no shortage of Buddhist monks especially in asian countries, who dedicate their lives to studying Dharma and then trying to realize it, so I guess Dharma must be continuing to influence their minds into some sort of realization. The same could be said for lay followers, after the initial spark I talk about is lit, something must be happening in their minds, some realization of sorts, that keeps them wanting to know, learn and experience more. So again I think Dharma is alive and kicking in the 21st century, as much as it has been in any other era since Buddhas time.
  • There is also the case of cultural adaptation and I haven't really tried to think through any impact there.
    I think you could say that Dharma has always been about cultural adaptation, it's always been expressed in different ways in different places. Even in the Buddha's time.
  • The Dharma is a constant.
  • The Dharma is a constant.
    ...our recognition of it ebbs and flows.
  • In what world? An all encompassing world? Does that world exist? Show me what world there are more rules and less arhants? I can't establish whether a single arhant is in the world. But I can see my own difficulties. And I have less rules than when I woke up this morning since the day did not go as planned :)
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