What is nihilism?

WallyB

dear New Buddhist forum

i was reading posts on a Buddhist forum, which defined 'nihilism' as not believing in life (rebirth) after the death of the body

it got me thinking

in some religious teachings, such as the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, it is written the soul cannot be cut; that the soul will enter a new body after death; therefore we should not be concerned about going to war & dying in that war. upon death, the soul will enter a new body so there is no grounds for concern, conscience or worry

or some religious folks believe if they kill in the name of their religion they will be martyred & go to their God's heaven

so what exactly is nihilism? is it not believing in an afterlife? or is it not believing in the results of karma?

in the quote below, what exactly is being emphasised?

i thought this topic to be suitable for new Buddhists on a beginners forum

metta

There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly and practicing rightly, proclaim this world and the next after having directly known and realized it for themselves. A person is a composite of four primary elements. At death, the earth (in the body) returns to and merges with the (external) earth-substance. The fire returns to and merges with the external fire-substance. The liquid returns to and merges with the external liquid-substance. The wind returns to and merges with the external wind-substance. The sense-faculties scatter into space. Four men, with the bier as the fifth, carry the corpse. Its eulogies are sounded only as far as the charnel ground. The bones turn pigeon-colored. The offerings end in ashes. Generosity is taught by idiots. The words of those who speak of existence after death are false, empty chatter. With the break-up of the body, the wise and the foolish alike are annihilated, destroyed. They do not exist after death.

Samaññaphala Sutta

Lady_Alison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

although, i'm interested how buddhism views this, good question, op.

Dakini

Nihilism in Buddhism means believing that nothing really exists. The "self" doesn't exist. If there's no self, there's nothing to carry over to the next lifetime. This is an extreme arrived at by a misunderstanding of the teaching of dependent origination. (I'll leave that to someone else to explain.)

The Buddha, however, taught a middle way between a static unchanging self and not-self, or no self. He taught an ever-evolving changing self. If our personalities were frozen in time, there would be no potential or opportunity to grow and strive to improve ourselves toward the goal of Enlightenment.

person

"Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
-Walter Sobchak (John Goodman) The Big Lebowski

Its a good topic, but I think the Sutta passage sums it up for me, I didn't have anything constructive to add so in nihilist fashion I added something unconstructive. :rarr:

Lady_Alison

isn't the NOTHING still SOMETHING?

i mean can we actually ever point at NOTHING?

everything in our reality is composed of atoms geographically located and formed into what we see as chair, cat, person... etc...

atoms and space...

person

isn't the NOTHING still SOMETHING?

i mean can we actually ever point at NOTHING?

everything in our reality is composed of atoms geographically located and formed into what we see as chair, cat, person... etc...

atoms and space...

This is actually a very good and profound question. I think you can take it one step further than atoms and space into concepts as well.

Lady_Alison

" I think you can take it one step further than atoms and space into concepts as well."

@person

like what?

do you think that the inability to point at NOTHING disproves nihilism?

taiyaki

If theres nothing then what is there making nothing into an object?

Nothing only exists in abstraction and in relationship to something.

person

Like what is the concept of father without the existence of son. The concepts need each other to have any meaning. In the same way the concept of nothing needs the concept of something to have any kind of meaning.

" I think you can take it one step further than atoms and space into concepts as well."

@person

like what?

do you think that the inability to point at NOTHING disproves nihilism?

ginab

Wherever I point, I'm pointing at nothing. :sawed:

federica

" I think you can take it one step further than atoms and space into concepts as well."

@person

like what?

do you think that the inability to point at NOTHING disproves nihilism?

@Lady_Alison,
Careful.... you'll get one of your headaches in a minute.....

Lady_Alison

@federica philosophical mind Scramble, more like it.

caz

dear New Buddhist forum

i was reading posts on a Buddhist forum, which defined 'nihilism' as not believing in life (rebirth) after the death of the body

it got me thinking

in some religious teachings, such as the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, it is written the soul cannot be cut; that the soul will enter a new body after death; therefore we should not be concerned about going to war & dying in that war. upon death, the soul will enter a new body so there is no grounds for concern, conscience or worry

or some religious folks believe if they kill in the name of their religion they will be martyred & go to their God's heaven

so what exactly is nihilism? is it not believing in an afterlife? or is it not believing in the results of karma?

in the quote below, what exactly is being emphasised?

i thought this topic to be suitable for new Buddhists on a beginners forum

metta

There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly and practicing rightly, proclaim this world and the next after having directly known and realized it for themselves. A person is a composite of four primary elements. At death, the earth (in the body) returns to and merges with the (external) earth-substance. The fire returns to and merges with the external fire-substance. The liquid returns to and merges with the external liquid-substance. The wind returns to and merges with the external wind-substance. The sense-faculties scatter into space. Four men, with the bier as the fifth, carry the corpse. Its eulogies are sounded only as far as the charnel ground. The bones turn pigeon-colored. The offerings end in ashes. Generosity is taught by idiots. The words of those who speak of existence after death are false, empty chatter. With the break-up of the body, the wise and the foolish alike are annihilated, destroyed. They do not exist after death.

Samaññaphala Sutta

Nihilism is a wrong view against the middle way, Nihilism denies Buddha's teachings on rebirth and in general the concept of other beings in Samsara and the effects karma, having this view is a hindrance to practice. It is a wrong view to be abandoned.

weighted

This discussion reminds me of a piece I read recently on nothingness which might be of interest to fellow NB folks:

http://buddhaspace.blogspot.com/2011/05/buddha-eckhart-on-nothingness.html

Lady_Alison

@weighted...I saved the article

Lady_Alison

Hopefully not off topic but I think the answer lies in the blending off all religions...@weighted. Thank you for the article.

Jason

For the Theravadin perspective, I suggest checking out the entry for ditthi (view) in Nyanatiloka's Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines.

KarunaDharmakaya

yea nhilism is wrong view,There isnt many Mahayana Tathagatagarbha Buddhists on here is there?? 98% of Buddhism in the world is based on Buddha nature and the true self/eternal Permanent Buddha,yet in the west all you here about is emptiness,and dependant origination(both were only teachings that point to the true self)(lankavatara sutra)Dipendant origination was always considered samsarasan and dispicable,emptiness is considered the teaching to get rid of the tainted individual ego self to help one become the permanaent unchangeing true self(Buddha)

you do know as far as (Mahayana goes) that the Lotus sutra proclaimed these teachings to be provisional and the lotus sutra is the starting sutra of the eternal Buddha and the last doctrine of Tathagatagarbha???

sorry to go off topic