Getting past Doubt.

RichardH

Do you no longer have doubts about the Dharma? Has doubt about the teachings been settled in practice? Doubt for me does not even come into the picture anymore, and hasn't for a long time. This isn't a claim to being "advanced" or "Enlightenment" or anything fancy like that... it is just saying that sheer gronk time on the cushion burns off doubt, and practice just "is". Also... issues like superstitious belief vs. scientific fact disappear on the cushion, given time .

So.. if you are no longer in a place of doubt.. and are just practicing with things as they are.. could you please describe when doubt fell away? Could you describe the change in your life?



Thankyou

caz

When I comprehended things where appearance and not Inherent. It is said Buddha's do not deceive in teaching Dharma as their only intention is to benefit us bring us to a state free from suffering. All the Dharma I have practiced slowly changes my mind for the better depending upon how much effort I put into practice, Like a Good friend who only tells you what is I have no reason to disbelieve Buddha's teachings on the basis that they all do as what he says.

Zero

I remember the period where I was 'searching for answers'... then I had some answers and I was 'searching for questions' - then I stopped searching... I guess that's when 'doubt' as to practice had nothing to attach to anymore - meditation led to the subtle revealing the profound and as you say 'doubt does not come into the picture anymore'...

genkaku

it is just saying that sheer gronk time on the cushion burns off doubt,

@RichardH -- Right on!

AND

Great Doubt is rightly said to be one of the most useful allies in that gronk time.

RichardH

Great Doubt is rightly said to be one of the most useful allies in that gronk time.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the nature of "great doubt", and how it is useful.... if you are so inclined.

genkaku

@Richard H -- Attached is a paper by Stuart Lachs -- one in which he discusses Great Faith, Great Doubt and Great Determination. The paper may be a bit long, but if you do a search for "great doubt," the reading is not too onerous ... and saves my lazy bones.

RichardH

You lazy, lazy, bones... I know what Stuart Lachs has to say about it.


...thanks for attaching it, just the same.

genkaku

@RichardH -- Cut me some slack! I get to play the lazy card at my age. Besides, Stuart writes clear, ungooey English.

WallyB

this isn't a claim to being "advanced" or "Enlightenment"

it is just saying that sheer gronk time on the cushion burns off doubt and practice just "is".

the be enlightened, two more fetters must be burned off, namely, fondling with rituals and self-belief

it is easy to become habituated to sitting so sitting becomes like a ritual. it is like the old grandmothers who meditate in the forest monasteries of Thailand. often, this is just a ritual (but the old grandmothers can often sit/sleep/whatever all night on the full moon)

in my view, more tangible fruits from meditation are required to remove what is regarded as doubt. such as developing deep peace & happiness so there is no doubt meditation itself alone can always sustain the mind

Dazzle

Practice on the cushion is a useful preliminary -but it should be integrated into everyday life eventually, so that what one previously called 'practice' just happens naturally.

Just my humble opinion of course !

Dazzle

Oh - and I've never had doubts about the Dharma, Richard, - just about the tradition I used to be with.

.

taiyaki

I'm not sure what I doubted.
Probably my ignorance. That I doubt all the time.

But confidence grows.

Eating pizza, only taste and sensation.
Drinking soda, only taste and sensation.

Nothing to confirm but everything already confirm itself.

WallyB

Eating pizza, only taste and sensation.
Drinking soda, only taste and sensation.

but life is more than eating pizza & drinking soda. dukkha is also possible in relation to many circumstances of life. are we confident in freedom from that?

taiyaki

dukkha appears and there is only dukkha.
dependently originated appearances come and go.
the 8 fold path was designed to work with the causes and conditions.

while traversing the 8 fold path in daily life how can there not be confidence in buddha dharma?

each moment in suffering allows for compassion.

an open mind and an open heart. let suffering come. nothing lasts.

WallyB

dukkha appears and there is only dukkha

sounds rather blasé or nonchalant to me. practise is for the ending of dukkha rather than for some unprepared belief the mind will be "one" or "just is" with it

just as confidence occurs in a doctor that is skilled in providing medicine for cure, confidence arises in dhamma when experienced as cure

RichardH

@RichardH -- Cut me some slack! I get to play the lazy card at my age. Besides, Stuart writes clear, ungooey English.

Yes sir.

RichardH

Practice on the cushion is a useful preliminary -but it should be integrated into everyday life eventually, so that what one previously called 'practice' just happens naturally.

Just my humble opinion of course !

Agree completely.... that is leaving doubt far behind.

taiyaki

@WallyB

prajna wisdom allows all things to self liberate.

that is all the confidence one needs.

"When this exists, that comes to be. With the arising of this, that arises. When this does not exist, that does not come to be. With the cessation of this, that ceases.
— Samyutta Nikaya 12.61"

RichardH

Oh - and I've never had doubts about the Dharma, Richard, - just about the tradition I used to be with.

.

Yes, I know that Dazzle.

seeker242

Do you no longer have doubts about the Dharma? Has doubt about the teachings been settled in practice? Doubt for me does not even come into the picture anymore, and hasn't for a long time. This isn't a claim to being "advanced" or "Enlightenment" or anything fancy like that... it is just saying that sheer gronk time on the cushion burns off doubt, and practice just "is". Also... issues like superstitious belief vs. scientific fact disappear on the cushion, given time .

So.. if you are no longer in a place of doubt.. and are just practicing with things as they are.. could you please describe when doubt fell away? Could you describe the change in your life?
Thankyou

I guess it would depend on what kind of doubt you are referring to. Intellectual doubts or "real life" doubts? Intellectual doubts would be like the "superstitious belief vs. scientific fact" stuff, etc, etc. "Real life" doubts would be like not letting go of form, feeling, perceptions, etc. because you think there is still some value there even though the Buddha clearly stated there isn't. If one really had no doubt whatsoever that attaching to form, feeling, perceptions, etc, only made suffering, then one could say that one knows that attaching to form, feeling, etc. only makes suffering. However, if one knows this, wouldn't they automatically stop doing that as a result? It seems to me that if there is still some "holding on" going on, then there is still some doubting going on there somewhere.

Sabre

Sometimes there is a place for doubt, sometimes there is a place for faith. We have to be wise about this, placing faith in the wrong practice/teacher may result in a loss of time or worse. But as they say "faith can move mountains", so at the right time it can be a valuable tool.

As soon as our practice starts to have some fruits, the doubt about that will certainly decrease.

With metta,
Sabre

RichardH

Do you no longer have doubts about the Dharma? Has doubt about the teachings been settled in practice? Doubt for me does not even come into the picture anymore, and hasn't for a long time. This isn't a claim to being "advanced" or "Enlightenment" or anything fancy like that... it is just saying that sheer gronk time on the cushion burns off doubt, and practice just "is". Also... issues like superstitious belief vs. scientific fact disappear on the cushion, given time .

So.. if you are no longer in a place of doubt.. and are just practicing with things as they are.. could you please describe when doubt fell away? Could you describe the change in your life?
Thankyou

I guess it would depend on what kind of doubt you are referring to. Intellectual doubts or "real life" doubts? Intellectual doubts would be like the "superstitious belief vs. scientific fact" stuff, etc, etc. "Real life" doubts would be like not letting go of form, feeling, perceptions, etc. because you think there is still some value there even though the Buddha clearly stated there isn't. If one really had no doubt whatsoever that attaching to form, feeling, perceptions, etc, only made suffering, then one could say that one knows that attaching to form, feeling, etc. only makes suffering. However, if one knows this, wouldn't they automatically stop doing that as a result? It seems to me that if there is still some "holding on" going on, then there is still some doubting going on there somewhere.

I have no doubt whatsoever that attachment makes suffering, not shred off doubt. Yet still attach and suffer.. I am attached to my son and partner for instance, well aware of the price. I do not psychologically cling to them, but am attached. Show me a father who isn't, and I'll show you a self centered "Buddhist" ass hat.

Zero

ass hat!!!! hilarious

seeker242

I have no doubt whatsoever that attachment makes suffering, not shred off doubt. Yet still attach and suffer.. I am attached to my son and partner for instance, well aware of the price. I do not psychologically cling to them, but am attached. Show me a father who isn't, and I'll show you a self centered "Buddhist" ass hat.

I meant the Buddhist version of clinging, not caring for children properly.

RichardH

I have no doubt whatsoever that attachment makes suffering, not shred off doubt. Yet still attach and suffer.. I am attached to my son and partner for instance, well aware of the price. I do not psychologically cling to them, but am attached. Show me a father who isn't, and I'll show you a self centered "Buddhist" ass hat.

I meant the Buddhist version of clinging, not caring for children properly.

There is plenty of finessing around that... Love..attachment.. loving but not attaching.. etc.

It's another disussion. ..gotta get to work...

Zero

I've been pondering the 'describe the change in your life'... difficult pinpointing change and the exact causes of it... perhaps no change at all came from the reconciliation of doubt but rather the change itself led to / catalysed the reconciliation.