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Are Humans Evolving Towards Autism?

IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
edited March 2012 in General Banter
Could the emerging shift of human consciousness be making an evolutionary transformation from what we now know as normal to what we diagnose as disorder? Would it be simpler to "detach" in a Buddhist sense if that were the case?

http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/cdc-autism-rate-now-1-88-171300743.html

http://ceciliabeltran.hubpages.com/hub/Are-Humans-Evolving-Towards-Autism

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2007/11/06/could-autism-be-the-next-stage-of-human-evolution/
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Comments

  • chariramacharirama Veteran
    edited March 2012
    I heard a young person who is 'on the spectrum' say "I don't have anything, I just see things differently"
  • I haven't read the articles - my intial reactionary thought is how would communication difficulties, repetitive behaviours, and problems involving socialisation benefit ? :skeptic:
  • chariramacharirama Veteran
    edited March 2012
    andyrobyn - I've given this some thought over the years and I think that the current idea of "normal" has influenced the society that we have created. Some people do not fit into that model but it may be because the model is flawed and not the person.

    If, as a human, one of us was forced to live in a society created by chimpanzees we would be the odd one out and the others may have trouble communicating with us even though humans are considered more advanced than primates.
  • When something evolves, you think of it adapting more to the current conditions, getting better at existing, not having more difficulty. Bit, maybe those in that spectrum see and feel certain things better than a "normal" person does now, and being autistic is setting humans up for success as the world changes? Unknowns all......
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Yes, I agree with the sentiments about the concepts around normal. I will read the articles and see what they offer ... my experiences with the spectrum do not suggest that it is an evolutionary adaptation of benefit.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited March 2012
    My wife works in the autism field, and our son is "on the spectrum". Any "better" adaptation at one thing is marked by a deficit in something else. Many people with autism are struggling to adapt. Putting a teleological spin on the rise in autism is fanciful imo..


  • Interesting question. I just heard on NPR this week that new studies have found the rate of those with Autism is now 1 in 88 births, up from an already high incidence of 1 in 110 just a couple of years ago.
  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    edited March 2012
    This is absolutely assanine. First of all, autism is not a "disorder," as many mentalistic traditional psychologists would have people believe. It's simply a label for children with a poorly developed repertoire of skills. Most importantly, they don't learn at an early enough age how to imitate others without external reinforcment.

    Most children develop internal reinforcement mechanisms called "imitative reinforcers" that arise naturally out the match between the behavior of the imitator (the child) and behavior of the model (parent/adult/sibling/etc.) The reason these arise is other children is because they are indirectly paired with other tangible reinforcers at a young age.

    No praise -- Baby makes babbling noise after mother speaks --> Praise

    Not only is the baby reinforced for making language-like behavior, but the fact that it imitated the mother is reinforced as well. So the act of imitating will increase in frequency because it has been reinforced.

    But lets say a baby is in its crib and the mother is cleaning the room. Then the mother stubs her toe and yells. The baby makes a shrieking sound, not because it is scared but because it is imitating the mother. But the mother, in pain either ignores the noise (thus extinguishing the response) or she may make an aversive grunt or angry face momentarily at the child because she is in pain (thus punishing the response). It's a small thing, but punishment in particular is extremely effective at reducing response frequency in young children. So in this case, the baby may not imitate the mother again for some time, and unless in that case it is well reinforced, the baby may never develop the tiny skills necessary for proper behavioral development.

    Without language, or imitative reinforcers, the child will show extremely lacking skills very early in development.

    Autism is NOT some special mental state. The children who are autistic do not see things differently than other humans. Children who are autistic are simply lacking the skills necessary for interacting with and maipulating their environment in an effective way. In my opinion, neurologists and psyhiatrists and talk therapists can try everything they want to find some "root cause" to the condition, but I can almost gaurentee THERE ISN"T A ROOT CAUSE.

    The common autistic medical model uses circular logic that leads to no conclusions at all on how autism arises or how it may be treated.
    -How do you know my son is autistic?
    -Because he displays autistic symptoms
    -Why does my son display autistic symptoms?
    -Because he is autistic

    That's like saying, "your son is autistic because he is autistic." BUT WHAT IS AUTISTIC?! This is why so many parents, teachers, and psychologists are so frustrated and confused by the condition. Their looking at the finger ... not the moon.
  • Talisman- speaking from experience, you are way off base.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited March 2012
    This is absolutely assanine. First of all, autism is not a "disorder," and many mentalistic traditional psychologists would have people believe. It's simply a label for children with a poorly developed repertoire of skills. Most importantly, they don't learn at an early enough age how to imitate others without external reinforcment.

    Most children develop internal reinforcement mechanisms called "imitative reinforcers" that arise naturally out the match between the behavior of the imitator (the child) and behavior of the model (parent/adult/sibling/etc.) The reason these arise is other children is because they are indirectly paired with other tangible reinforcers at a young age.

    No praise -- Baby makes babbling noise after mother speaks --> Praise

    Not only is the baby reinforced for making language-like behavior, but the fact that it imitated the mother is reinforced as well. So the act of imitating will increase in frequency because it has been reinforced.

    But lets say a baby is in its crib and the mother is cleaning the room. Then the mother stubs her toe and yells. The baby makes a shrieking sound, not because it is scared but because it is imitating the mother. But the mother, in pain either ignores the noise (thus extinguishing the response) or she may make an aversive grunt or angry face momentarily at the child because she is in pain (thus punishing the response). It's a small thing, but punishment in particular is extremely effective at reducing response frequency in young children. So in this case, the baby may not imitate the mother again for some time, and unless in that case it is well reinforced, the baby may never develop the tiny skills necessary for proper behavioral development.

    Without language, or imitative reinforcers, the child will show extremely lacking skills very early in development.

    Autism is NOT some special mental state. The children who are autistic do not see things differently than other humans. Children who are autistic are simply lacking the skills necessary for interacting with and maipulating their environment in an effective way. In my opinion, neurologists and psyhiatrists and talk therapists can try everything they want to find some "root cause" to the condition, but I can almost gaurentee THERE ISN"T A ROOT CAUSE.

    The common autistic medical model uses circular logic that leads to no conclusions at all on how autism arises or how it may be treated.
    -How do you know my son is autistic?
    -Because he displays autistic symptoms
    -Why does my son display autistic symptoms?
    -Because he is autistic

    That's like saying, "your son is autistic because he is autistic." BUT WHAT IS AUTISTIC?! This is why so many parents, teachers, and psychologists are so frustrated and confused by the condition. Their looking at the finger ... not the moon.

    Getting lectured on this forum over what autism is, is ludicrous to me, and insulting. There is always another pet theory about what is really going on ..
    as if everything isn't being exhaustively explored by people who have great experience, skill, and are extremely well informed.

    I hope that children with autism have it diagnosed early, and get the best intervention, so they do not need to deal with more than they will have to.
  • @lamaramadingdong
    My opinion comes from the perspective of applied behavior analysis, which is, admittedly, a controversial approach to treatment since it is a departure from tradition treatment theory and methods. I don't think it's appropriate to assume that all inappropriate behavior is caused by some underlying mental condition, particulalry autism, for which applied behavior analysis has had the most influencial and effective methods of treatment. I just think that it is wrong to assume that autism is some grand evolutionary step, especially when I interact with autistic children on a weekly basis and all I see are kids who just need help learning.
  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    edited March 2012
    @richardh
    I'm not saying that anyone on HERE is assanine. I'm saying that the articles are assanine. Sorry if I sound imposing or rude, I'm passionate about this topic.
  • @lamaramadingdong
    My opinion comes from the perspective of applied behavior analysis, which is, admittedly, a controversial approach to treatment since it is a departure from tradition treatment theory and methods. I don't think it's appropriate to assume that all inappropriate behavior is caused by some underlying mental condition, particulalry autism, for which applied behavior analysis has had the most influencial and effective methods of treatment. I just think that it is wrong to assume that autism is some grand evolutionary step, especially when I interact with autistic children on a weekly basis and all I see are kids who just need help learning.
  • Talisman- I know where you're coming from, I've been a behavior analyst for over 30 years.
  • @lamaramadingdong
    That's awesome, so what is it that I said that is off base?
  • Saying that Autism is simply a learned behavior.
  • Why don't you think autistic behavior is learned? Do you think it is more likely caused by a physical condition associated with the brain?
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    @Talisman I'd recommend reading Temple Grandin's life story. When she began showing signs of autism doctors told her mother that she should institutionalize her. Her mother instead spent many hours teaching her how to interact with others. This allowed Temple to function in society and learn the skills she needed. But despite being raised properly and taught social skills she is still certainly autistic.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Talisman- speaking from experience, you are way off base.
    As a principal of a school with a number of autistic child at various points in the spectrum, I agree wholeheartedly.

  • Interesting question. I just heard on NPR this week that new studies have found the rate of those with Autism is now 1 in 88 births, up from an already high incidence of 1 in 110 just a couple of years ago.
    I have very serious doubts about that. Having studied statistics and medical research, I can tell you that with the stroke of a pen you can totally change the way statistics appear (especially in headlines). What changed? More autism? Better screening/diagnosis? Different reporting criteria? Any one or a combination of those things could make the statistics swing wildly.
  • @vinlyn
    so wait ... am I off base for saying that autism is not an evolutionary advantage or am I off base for saying autism is not caused by a biological or mental disorder?
  • For the sake of clarifying my position:
    I believe that an increase in the prevelance in autism may be due to other factors (earlier diagnosis, better diagnosis, etc.), but may be an actual increase.
    I believe that autism is not an evolutionary step.
    I believe that autism is not simply a learned behavior.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited March 2012
    @vinlyn
    so wait ... am I off base for saying that autism is not an evolutionary advantage or am I off base for saying autism is not caused by a biological or mental disorder?
    I don't know. But some of the extreme cases I've seen and dealt with are not learned.

  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    edited March 2012
    *deleted by me*

    im withdrawing from this conversation
  • @richardh
    I'm not saying that anyone on HERE is assanine. I'm saying that the articles are assanine. Sorry if I sound imposing or rude, I'm passionate about this topic.
    No apology needed. No one has nailed down autism. No one has reduced it to purely biological, environmental, or social causes.. no one has ruled out any of these factors either. The poor parenting theory caused so much suffering and has been completely debunked. There are clear neurological differences in people with profound autism.

    There is autism, whatever the causal factors may be, and there are a lot of great people, including people with autism, working to understand and help those with autism have full and happy lives... That includes the hold range, from people who are unable to live independently, to those who just have a different way of being in the world..

  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited March 2012
    A kid who has to wear a helmet because he likes to bang his head on things and severely hurt himself, really doesn't sound like evolution to me...

  • edited March 2012
    May I suggest
    http://www.wretchesandjabberers.org/
    (includes a scene where they meet a Buddhist monk)
  • @vinlyn
    so wait ... am I off base for saying that autism is not an evolutionary advantage or am I off base for saying autism is not caused by a biological or mental disorder?
    I don't know. But some of the extreme cases I've seen and dealt with are not learned.

    I must agree, my best friend's son is a big boy, non-verbal, still needs help in shower and toilet at 14 and now something is going on because he is becoming increasingly violent. They are working with medications but it could also be that she has cancer and when she is sick he gets upset. Currently no caregivers will take him. Some places on the spectrum such as high functioning aspergers I would say we could look at evolutionary changes because the people with aspergers are functional if odd in most places.

    However like another person said, the real life interacting with a person who is low functioning autistic with self harm behaviors is not what people think.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    @vinlyn
    so wait ... am I off base for saying that autism is not an evolutionary advantage or am I off base for saying autism is not caused by a biological or mental disorder?
    I don't know. But some of the extreme cases I've seen and dealt with are not learned.

    I must agree, my best friend's son is a big boy, non-verbal, still needs help in shower and toilet at 14 and now something is going on because he is becoming increasingly violent. They are working with medications but it could also be that she has cancer and when she is sick he gets upset. Currently no caregivers will take him. Some places on the spectrum such as high functioning aspergers I would say we could look at evolutionary changes because the people with aspergers are functional if odd in most places.

    However like another person said, the real life interacting with a person who is low functioning autistic with self harm behaviors is not what people think.
    Yes, and biting chunks out of people's arms, or running down the school hallway or mall while stripping all one's clothes off and masturbating in public...well, that's something I never learned.

  • B5CB5C Veteran
    Were not evolving for autism. This new data is just from better testing for autism.
  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    edited March 2012
    Yes, and biting chunks out of people's arms, or running down the school hallway or mall while stripping all one's clothes off and masturbating in public...well, that's something I never learned.

    An autistic person performing those behaviors has definitely learned those behaviors through prior contingency control. Children aren't born enjoying masterbation and running through the halls and banging their head on the ground. It is shaped, reinforced behavior. The question is why they have not learned the RULES that dictate whether or not this behavior would be appropriate.

    People who adhere to a strcitly medical model would say that the part of the brain that controls the acquisition, memory, and adherance to rule-governed behavior is "not wired correctly" or has been damaged or not developed properly due to biological factors.

    In my opinion, the autistic person has not developed language-based behavior and cannot understand, repeat, or adhere to rules and so his/her behavior is not governed by rules like it is for functioning individuals with normally developed language-based behavior. Of COURSE, there may be cases where a biolical factor is a variable, but I do NOT think that it is the case with all or even most of the cases such as these.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Yes, and biting chunks out of people's arms, or running down the school hallway or mall while stripping all one's clothes off and masturbating in public...well, that's something I never learned.

    An autistic person performing those behaviors has definitely learned those behaviors through prior contingency control. Children aren't born enjoying masterbation and running through the halls and banging their head on the ground. It is shaped, reinforced behavior. The question is why they have not learned the RULES that dictate whether or not this behavior would be appropriate.

    People who adhere to a strcitly medical model would say that the part of the brain that controls the acquisition, memory, and adherance to rule-governed behavior is "not wired correctly" or has been damaged or not developed properly due to biological factors.

    In my opinion, the autistic person has not developed language-based behavior and cannot understand, repeat, or adhere to rules and so his/her behavior is not governed by rules like it is for functioning individuals with normally developed language-based behavior. Of COURSE, there may be cases where a biolical factor is a variable, but I do NOT think that it is the case with all or even most of the cases such as these.
    But I've worked with autistic kids who understand appropriate behavior patterns most of the time, and then suddenly something happens. Teddy didn't normally run down the hall, stripping off his clothes, and masturbating openly. It maybe happened 1 day out of 60. Otherwise he could tell you the rules and abide by them, until some invisible trigger occurred. Maybe that's the "not wired correctly" aspect.

  • Kids act out because it is reinforcing to do so. If this type of behavior occurs it just means new rules and contingencies need to be put in place.

    Sometimes a teacher slacks, the kid is having a hard day, or the classroom environment is simply not reinforcing or mentally engaging enough to control the childs behavior.

    When a "normal" kid acts out, they don't say "Oh it must have been a hiccup in his brain." They say "He is acting out because it's fun to act out" and then they punish it and control the behavior.
  • From an evolutionary standpoint creatures who lived in the sea when venturing on to land would have been very awkward - would even have caused great personal harm and/or death in the process of adapting to land. It would have taken many many generations to evolve legs, feet and lungs - but it happened. This perspective occurred to me when I posted the OP about humans evolving towards autism. I meant no offense to those closely associated with the topic and want to believe I have as much empathy for them as is possible. I agree that the query about evolution is fanciful and that each autistic child deserves a bodhisattva - indeed, have them in loving, caring parents and\or caring professionals. @lamaramadingdong, I agree that the term "disorder" relating to what we understand as autism is disagreeable and that those diagnosed simply ( and very complexly) have a different perspective. @RichardH, your post about "Robes on fire" suggested that great discipline and expression of emptiness through detachment can result (as in the burning robes example) in what could be viewed by a behaviorist as pathological - but it's not really pathological is it? So it occurs that in practice we are training to recondition our conditioned consciousness similarly to autistic children being helped and trained to live happy and productive lives. I don't know where the middle ground is on this issue - but again, mean no offense and don't intend to treat this topic in an offhand, pop-psychological manner.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    @Talisman I think you are in part right about how conditioning and reinforcement shape one's behavior. I think though that different people have different start points based more upon biology or karma or whatever and so the same subsequent conditions won't produce the same results for everyone.
  • It may not appear as an adaptation for benefit but there is still a great seal we do not understand about evolution. Especially where behavior is concerned. With the rate of increase in autism we have to look at the possibilities. One possible reason for the shift is we are poisoning ourselves to a point that out brains are simply going to make a change in the direction of the force applied, i.e. evolution. Another possible reason for the shift could be that we, as a species, have existed in the same form for long enough and nature, by whatever rules she plays by, has decided it is time to change. Whatever your inclination is in this debate I think when viewed from above we are seeing a paradigm shift in human brain function.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism

    Wikipedia has a pretty good summary of theories about autism.
  • Kids act out because it is reinforcing to do so. If this type of behavior occurs it just means new rules and contingencies need to be put in place.
    blockquote>

    I would recommend that you not say this in this manner to a parent or caregiver of a serverely autistic child. Often they are quite sensitive to perceived criticism. Most of us parents and teachers lose our focus and do not follow through on everything that needs to be reinforced at that time. I think we can go quite far in our compassion for the person and families of those with autism, there are many many cases where they are treated badly or well-meaning people try to interact in a way that easily sets off a negative behavior. Just going out in public for the activities that are even possible gets public criticism a fair amount of the time.

  • I would never accuse a parent or teacher for being bad at their jobs. I would just help teach them how to work with the child. There needs to be patience on all fronts when dealing with all children especially those with learning disabilities. Like I was trying to say earlier on, often times the contingencies that give rise to inapproopriate and detrimental bahvior are reinforced accidentally or even naturally in some situations.

    A very astute, intelligent mother, with 3 fully functional and intelligent children, can still have one autistic daughter simply because through some course of early development, a key behavioral contingency went unreinforced.

    In that case, you intervene and work to correct the inappropriate behaviors and develop the responses necessary for improving the chances at having a functional and happy life.
  • Talisman- I used to be a strict behaviorist and believed that people came into the world as a blank slate and that the environment shaped them into who they were. Then I had children of my own and realized that us humans come "factory-equipped" with many of our traits, personalities, skills, talents and other attributes. It's not a matter of nature vs. nurture, but rather nature + nurture.
    Your statement from above, "A very astute, intelligent mother, with 3 fully functional and intelligent children, can still have one autistic daughter simply because through some course of early development, a key behavioral contingency went unreinforced.", falls back into the "blame-the-parent" model talked about above and does a real dis-service to those parents with children with disabilities who are already feeling a great deal of guilt about their children's disability.

  • possibilitiespossibilities PNW, WA State Veteran
    simply because through some course of early development, a key behavioral contingency went unreinforced.
    This may apply to a certain individual behavior, but not the whole complex issue of autism. Maybe you need to listen to the care givers more.
  • chariramacharirama Veteran
    edited March 2012
    I believe the spectrum itself is too wide and varied to make any sweeping generalizations.

    When my son was quite young he demonstrated symptoms of Asperger syndrome through poor social skills and what seemed to be a slow learning process. Later on he began to demonstrate math skills by performing complex calculations quickly and accurately in his head. When I asked him about it he told me that he sees everything in patterns.

    On Monday he will be presenting his theseus at University where he tutors fellow student on pure mathematics. His theseus is based on inverse square roots which, again, is something he can do in his head.

    When he was younger, we were very concerned that he may not be able to function, let alone thrive, in social and educational environments.
    zombiegirl
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I believe the spectrum itself is too wide and varied to make any sweeping generalizations.

    When my son was quite young he demonstrated symptoms of Asperger syndrome through poor social skills and what seemed to be a slow learning process. Later on he began to demonstrate math skills by performing complex calculations quickly and accurately in his head. When I asked him about it he told me that he sees everything in patterns.

    On Monday he will be presenting his theseus at University where he tutors fellow student on pure mathematics. His theseus is based on inverse square roots which, again, is something he can do in his head.

    When he was younger, we were very concerned that he may not be able to function, let alone thrive, in social and educational environments.
    Congratulations!

  • @talisman, I understand what you are saying here, but still be very cautious. If you were to say any of this to my friend she would be deeply hurt. You do not know what else the parents are dealing with and in her case leaving a physically abusive spouse and having cancer twice are things that may have affected her son, and she does not have any interest in learning more at this point. She was beaten, she left as soon as she could, she was not given any financial assistance in 14 years, and no protection because her ex is a cop. We can say all of that was wrong and they are long since over, but I will tell you that if you suggest anything like what you said to her or another parent you will in fact hurt them deeply.

    A few weeks ago when she was too sick to stop throwing up for a week and no one in her family came to help she felt guilty about his behavior. She feels guilt for being abused, guilt over getting immunizations, guilt for buying the wrong type of milk. It seems to me the best move is to express deep compassion for the parent who is willing to keep working at it instead of putting the child in an institution so that the autistic person will have the love of family and reach their best potential, whatever that may be is not ours to judge.
    Cole_
  • @amh
    I absolutely agree
  • edited March 2012
    Just as an aside, a lot of the people I have worked with on the autism spectrum have been my very best teachers. We're all just humans trying to do the best we can.
  • Autism is a collection of personality traits which become conspicuous when they occur in retarded people. I have a retarded son who is autistic. I share many of his personality traits, and I don’t regret any of them. Man’s mental and emotional makeup is undergoing rapid evolution. How could they not? Our lifestyles have changed dramatically during the past few centuries. If autism is on the increase, could it be because we are becoming more independent, less conforming, less dependent upon intuitive abilities and tending more toward reason? If Man is evolving, shouldn’t we expect some of Nature’s innovations to be tentative and incomplete?
    Berthajane Vandegrift
    A Few Autistic Questions about Freud , Marx and Darwin
    http:30145.myauthorsite.com/
  • DaftChrisDaftChris Spiritually conflicted. Not of this world. Veteran
    edited December 2012
    I have autism and I think that, percentage-wise, there has always been a consistent number of people "on the spectrum" throughout the ages.

    It's only now that with the rising population and advancements in medical science, that we are discovering just how many people out there are who autistic.

    We have to remember that autistic people, until recent decades, were considered "retarded" and lumped into said category. There was no such thing as autism that was known.

    So I don't think we are "moving towards" it, but I do think we are expanding our awareness on it.

    Just my two cents.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    ^ I agree, DaftChris. From the time I began teaching around 1975 until I stopped administrating in 2008, I don't think I noticed any more kids that had autism, but I do think we got much better at identifying the condition. In fact, I remember where I student taught we had an awfully high number of students who were on Ritalin...and it was noted that they all had the same GP. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
  • Is ritalin prescribed for autism too? I tried it for awhile and it was great with the only problem that I had some hallucinations!
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