Self-hatred

ClayTheScribe

So through reiki work and insight meditation, I've discovered through my years with clinical depression, I have been storing a lot of self-hatred in my heart that's not starting to leak out, so to speak. My task is to instill self-love. But if, as we're in taught in Buddhism, there is no such thing as a "self," who or what have I hated and who or what do I love? I really can't get the non-self part. How have others dealt with this?

Dakini

I would say at this stage, to not worry about the "self" part, and focus on compassion for you. The "self" thing is debatable anyway. It's not "self" that's the problem, it's ego-clinging to self, and the idea of a fixed, unchanging self, that are the problem. But you recognize that "self" can change and grow. That was the Buddha's view as well. So you're right on target.

weighted

Developing self-compassion is the first step in metta practice/meditation. I think many of us, myself included, find it hard to embrace who we are and love ourselves for who we truly are. But this is really the first step to being able to project lovingkindness to others.

Know that you're definitely not alone. I would bet that many people (again, myself included here) have a lot of anxiety or guilt about things we've done in the past; because of this, forgiving ourselves and developing self-love can be a hard but beneficial journey.

metta

taiyaki

Jason

So through reiki work and insight meditation, I've discovered through my years with clinical depression, I have been storing a lot of self-hatred in my heart that's not starting to leak out, so to speak. My task is to instill self-love. But if, as we're in taught in Buddhism, there is no such thing as a "self," who or what have I hated and who or what do I love? I really can't get the non-self part. How have others dealt with this?

Personally, I think it's better to think of Buddhism being more about constructing a healthy sense of self than deconstructing the idea of self altogether, at least at the beginning. For example, see Thanissaro Bhikkhu's essay, "The Problem of Egolessness."

Dakini

Clay, just a wild guess, but you may have subconsciously internalized the dominant society's negative attitudes toward unconventionally-gendered people. Some of that hate you've been carrying around might not be yours. In your mind, give it back to whoever laid it on you.

Tosh

But if, as we're in taught in Buddhism, there is no such thing as a "self,"

I don't think this is exactly correct; there is no permanent unchanging self. I mean, if there are no 'selfs', then there is no 'others', so why do we try to cultivate compassion for all these other sentient beings if they don't exist?

The two extreme positions are:

1. There is an eternal inherent self.
2. There is no self.

The truth is the middle way between these two extremes.

I'm pretty sure that's what the score is, but if someone can correct me, that'd be great.

Sabre

You exist and others exist, right? So there is the answer. Whatever you can recognize as existing, you can also love. Don't go too theoretical with this non-self idea. It's exactly through loving-kindness that its meaning may become more clear; not by ideas or views.

You could also wish your body/feeling/perception/consciousness well instead of the "I" or "self" if that's more constructive for you.

With metta,
Sabre

IronRabbit

There is the conditioned "self" and the "true" or "ultimate" self. Both emerged from emptiness but one tries to make sure we survive and the other is simply open to every experience.

Neither can be eradicated while living, so in overcoming the conditioned mind that delivers depression and self loathing re-conditioning is necessary. It can be tedious and requires attention and discipline.

Reconditioning involves forgiveness and gratefulness for the way in which our ego has created self hatred as a way to make sense of suffering and ultimately survive in a disagreeable existence. Essentially this is compassion for a well intentioned attempt that has been found not to work. Allowing such a false "self" to exist without identifying with it is like house training a puppy - keep bringing it back to the paper or outdoors - calmly - lovingly. Even if such self compassion is "faked" - the consciousness takes it in and processes it at face value.

Eckart Tolle lectures and has written books about the "pain body" - a form of self hating ego - from which liberation can be had. This is a repackaging of The Four Noble Truths and The Three Marks of Existence.

In addition to forgiveness and gratitude - centering or meditation is extremely helpful in identifying the "non-self" that is deserving of all love and compassion and from which all love and compassion emanate. That is, the "awareness" or true self which dwells with the ego clinging to its conditioned identity.


http://www.alternet.org/health/154566/the_fascinating_buddhist_approach_to_low_self-esteem/

http://www.soundstrue.com/shop/Living-the-Liberated-Life-and-Dealing-with-the-Pain-Body/304.productdetails

person

I think in this context it could be helpful to think about non-self in terms of your identity not being a fixed, independent thing. So whatever state you are in is not a fixed state that arises out of the fabric of yourself. Whatever pain or happiness you feel is a result of causes and conditions, they aren't a result of some flawed part of your being. That being the case you can now create new causes and conditions that will lead to a happier you because your mental habits aren't a fixed, intrinsic part of yourself.

As others have pointed out the new causes and conditions are loving kindess and compassion meditations or activities that help other people.

ClayTheScribe

I do metta meditation and it doesn't seem to help. It's like my heart is encased in black tar and nothing gets through, so I don't feel anything. Am I doing it wrong? How long do I need to do it for everyday?

person

I do metta meditation and it doesn't seem to help. It's like my heart is encased in black tar and nothing gets through, so I don't feel anything. Am I doing it wrong? How long do I need to do it for everyday?

I feel the same way, its like trying to squeeze water out of a rock. I do all the visualizations and recitations but no feeling comes, usually. I've been at it consistently for nearly a year and there has been progress though. Every now and then I get a moment of love or compassion to break through. For subsequent meditations I can sometimes use that remembered experience to help build and stabalize any new feeling that arises. I guess I just finally got to a point where I was sick of feeling miserable and decided that everyone was saying the remedy was metta so I figured I was just some poor sap who doesn't know what love is, so I had no real experience to draw on but felt that since I had some glimpses every now and again in my life that it is possible to feel and since it is possible to feel I could increase and develop that feeling more in meditation. So it sucks but its doable, what is the other option? Alcohol? Drugs?

I suspect that helping others helps too. I'm not a social person so I'd rather sit and meditate but maybe that would work for you.

ClayTheScribe

I just don't have enough opportunities, or don't find enough opportunities to help people. I guess that's my fault, but it seems like if you want to help someone these days you have to go through training or set up interviews and appointments. I'm planning on signing up for this charity called Bessie's Hope which has volunteers visit the elderly in nursing homes. I thought that might be good to do as well as keep me aware of death and aging as I know some monks do.

ClayTheScribe

I did give a woman on the street some money today. I meant to give her $5, but I accidentally gave her a $20. I was actually driving down the street feeling guilty for not giving her more until I got to the barber shop and realized I didn't have the $20 needed for my haircut. For once my aloofness might improve my karma.

Tosh

Clay, I like your posts!

Also, try looking at Tonglen practise; I've only looked into it recently and it appears to be very good. Pema Chodron teaches this a lot.

One thing I do is that when I notice I have a negative feeling, I'll carry out the following drill:

1. Watch it, noting to myself that it will pass.
2. Then tell myself that I'm experiencing this negative feeling so that no-one else will have to.
3. I'll then really watch it, breathing in deeply using my stomach; experiencing the feeling.

It takes the power out of the feeling.

Also, if I'm feeling anxious and I'm in a que (traffic or shopping), I'll breath in those people around me's suffering (I'll imagine dark black smoke) and breath out to them clear white light; like moonlight. Obviously this is a visualisation.

There's much much more though; don't let my basic rambles put you off from investigating it.

Try a search on youtube for Tonglen, it's very good, what little I know and understand of it.

RichardH

I remember a real turning point for me while on retreat. The concept of anatta had been really playing into my self loathing.. and having a positive self image (in the conventional sense) seemed un-Buddhist to me. It was kind of sick.. especially considering that Anatta is skillful means and not a metaphysical statement. .. and what good is medicine if it reinforces sickness? One day during the mealtime I forgave myself for existing.. I actually needed to do that, such was the deeply driven self hatred. After that Anatta snapped into place as a liberating and healthy device.. that helped me awaken to what cannott be reduced to either self or absence of self.. and does not negate or deny conventional psychological health.

ClayTheScribe

Yeah I'm familiar with tonglen. I'm not very good at it. I'm very good at feeling the pain in, but not feeling the joy on the out breath. I'm probably not doing it right. I usually don't feel I'm ever meditating correctly until I go a day without doing it in the morning and then I kind of notice. But it could just be in my head, like everything else.

ClayTheScribe

Oh and about retreats, I'd LOVE to go on just one, even one close here, but I just don't have the money. They are really expensive. I'd have to save up for most of the year just for a weekend retreat. I just think of how many people without lots of money don't get to go on retreats ever, but may really need one. Seems like the only way I'll go on a "retreat" in this lifetime is if I give up my life as a layperson and become a monk, which I have considered a lot. Actually committing to Right Speech would be difficult.

ClayTheScribe

It's really ironic and sad how capitalistic Buddhism has become in the West, that the truths and beautiful experiences sought and found on retreats have been had by people, including princes, who essentially became homeless and poor and lived on the streets. Now those experiences are only for those who can afford the $3-$400 for a weekend stay in the mountains. And unless you're destitute, you can't qualify for scholarships.

RichardH

Oh and about retreats, I'd LOVE to go on just one, even one close here, but I just don't have the money. They are really expensive. I'd have to save up for most of the year just for a weekend retreat. I just think of how many people without lots of money don't get to go on retreats ever, but may really need one. Seems like the only way I'll go on a "retreat" in this lifetime is if I give up my life as a layperson and become a monk, which I have considered a lot. Actually committing to Right Speech would be difficult.

Any Sangha that would not find some way accommodate genuine lack of money is bogus. That should not prevent access to Sangha, to practice. No effing way.. period.

ClayTheScribe

I speak specifically of the Shambhala Mountain Center in Colorado.