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Where is the karma located?

AstralProjecteeAstralProjectee
edited April 2012 in Buddhism Basics
Where is the karma located exactly? Thanks.

Comments

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    In the "seed consciousness", the alaya vijnana.
  • WallyBWallyB
    edited April 2012
    Karma means "action", most notably, action performed with 'self' attachment. When karma is done, it is finished, it remains in the past. But the results or fruits of that karma, which are called 'vipaka', remain embedded in the mind-heart, what Buddha called the 'citta'. That which is stored in & re-arises out of the citta is known by mind-consciousness (mano-vinanna).

    Therefore, the results of karma (karma-vipaka) are located in the citta (mind-heart).

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Where is the karma located exactly? Thanks.
    Just past the third hair, on the top of your left eyebrow....
    :rolleyes:

    I'm sorry.... what kind of a question is that?
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Surprisingly, the sutras actually address this. It's amazing what you can learn on this site!
  • BekenzeBekenze
    In the "seed consciousness", the alaya vijnana.
    Is that a Theravada or Mahayana teaching?
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 2012
    Both. I've seen Mahayanists discuss this, but it came from a suttra quote or analysis of a suttra I saw on this site quite awhile ago. The alaya vijnana (seed consciousness) is what the Dalai Lama refers to as the "very, very subtle mind", that survives after death and undergoes rebirth.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    In the "seed consciousness", the alaya vijnana.
    Is that a Theravada or Mahayana teaching?
    It's in Mahayana, not sure about Theravada.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Consciousnesses#A.C4.81layavij.C3.B1.C4.81na
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited April 2012
    This ^^ is from the Yogacara school of Indian Buddhism taught by Vasubandhu and is generally seen as a lower understanding of reality than the Madyamika understanding expounded by Nagarjuna. Thats as much as I know I can't really tell you what the actual difference is or why one is higher than the other. Maybe try reading this, don't know if it will help at all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogacara#Yog.C4.81c.C4.81ra_and_M.C4.81dhyamaka
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    .....
    Therefore, the results of karma (karma-vipaka) are located in the citta (mind-heart).
    The results, yes. vippaka.....
    but kamma isn't located anywhere... it's an action that is engineered by thought/word/deed - results are visible - kamma isn't.....


  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Note to OP: karma does, literally, mean "action". What you're asking about it where are the seeds that result from our actions? The seeds that later ripen into fortuitous or unfortunate conditions. But we know what you mean. I think newbies should be able to use the term "karma" as a short-hand for karmic seeds or the ripening of those seeds, as it's usually understood in popular usage. Being that this is a NewbieBuddhist forum, and all... I don't know how others feel about this.
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    @Dakini I agree.

    And I notice that none of the answers to a simple question, "Where is the (my) karma located?" received a simple answer. All the answers only bring more questions. If it's attached to the seed consciousness, then where is the seed consciousness located? Where is this "mind-heart" supposed to be? Halfway between the heart and mind, in one or the other?

    You can say that karma is not a "thing" that you can point to, but it's treated like a thing when Buddhists talk about it. According to what we are taught, karma is something you have, something you carry around, something you accumulate and work off and it can even be sorted into good and bad types of karma.

    If it's not a "thing" then why do people treat it like a thing? And if it is a thing, then what is it? Where is it?

    @AstralProjectee I like your question. Have any of the answers satisfied you yet?


  • AstralProjecteeAstralProjectee
    "@AstralProjectee I like your question. Have any of the answers satisfied you yet?" I don't really know.

    I like this one "seed consciousness", the alaya vijnana."

    Peace!
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    @Dakini I agree.

    And I notice that none of the answers to a simple question, "Where is the (my) karma located?" received a simple answer. All the answers only bring more questions. If it's attached to the seed consciousness, then where is the seed consciousness located? Where is this "mind-heart" supposed to be? Halfway between the heart and mind, in one or the other?

    You can say that karma is not a "thing" that you can point to, but it's treated like a thing when Buddhists talk about it. According to what we are taught, karma is something you have, something you carry around, something you accumulate and work off and it can even be sorted into good and bad types of karma.

    If it's not a "thing" then why do people treat it like a thing? And if it is a thing, then what is it? Where is it?


    Good post, Cinorjer!

  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited April 2012
    What if karma is a concept to describe a process and not a (meta)physical thing that actually "is" somewhere?

    Where is an idea located? Nowhere, it is silly to speak of the location of an idea.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    In the dimensionless point. That is nowhere but once you set a point all others become apparent.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    If it's not a "thing" then why do people treat it like a thing? And if it is a thing, then what is it? Where is it?
    Where is consciousness? ;)

  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran

    If it's not a "thing" then why do people treat it like a thing? And if it is a thing, then what is it? Where is it?
    Where is consciousness? ;)

    Right here.

    If I was sitting in front of the Master, I'd smack the floor or some such expected response. All these questions really boil down to one question: "What am I?"

    To be clear, these are all good answers people are giving. It's just that they lead to more questions. Eventually, you end up with a simple, "What am I?" Answer that, and you've answered the rest.





  • jlljll Veteran
    it is located 2 inches to the left of your sternum.
    lol.
    where is your conscience located?
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    What if karma is a concept to describe a process and not a (meta)physical thing that actually "is" somewhere?

    Where is an idea located? Nowhere, it is silly to speak of the location of an idea.
    If it passes to another rebirth, as is commonly believed, then it must exist in some form, as consciousness exists in some form. What that form is, is the subject of much debate.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    What if karma is a concept to describe a process and not a (meta)physical thing that actually "is" somewhere?

    Where is an idea located? Nowhere, it is silly to speak of the location of an idea.
    If it passes to another rebirth, as is commonly believed, then it must exist in some form, as consciousness exists in some form. What that form is, is the subject of much debate.

    But does it have to exist somewhere in space? Or have mass?
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    edited April 2012
    The current thinking is that consciousness is a field and exists everywhere. There is so much that isn't known at this point. The same would apply to karma, I'd venture. The fact that consciousness doesn't have mass doesn't mean it doesn't exist and that we can't locate it. Though we're pushing the frontiers of science, now.

    Throwing caution to the wind and indulging in some speculation, we might say that karmic seeds as an abstract, not physical seeds as we know them, bond to individual consciousness and follow it from one rebirth to the next.

    Time to move this thread to "Advanced Ideas", now, lol!
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    Everywhere you want it to be, over the rainbow where the lil lepracorn and his pot of gold are dancing around smoking a pipe. I have been there and seen it with my very own eyes.
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    'cetanahan bikkawe kamman vadami' is the Buddha's words on karma/kamma
    'intention is the karma'

    so we can find out where our intention lies on
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    edited April 2012
    When I help my neighbor out, the kamma is located in his brain. When later I ask his help the kamma might ripen and bear fruit and he helps me out in return.

    At the other hand; when I move to a different town and I ask a new neighbor for some help; the outcome has nothing to do with kamma.
    It’s a mistake to think that what happens to me has some magical connection with previous events. Unless of course you can point out the connection.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 2012
    @AstralProjectee According to the first link "person" gave, the seed consciousness, or storehouse consciousness is what administers rebirth. Check out the link, it's a good one.

    It also says: "Citta, [also called] alaya-vijnana, represents the deepest, finest and subtlest aspect or layer of the Aggregate of consciousness. It contains all the traces or impressions of the past actions and all good and bad future possibilities."
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    Subtle consciousness migrating to another body does not answer your question.
    The real problem about karmic consequences is that the outside world somehow has to be influenced along lines we don’t see or understand.

    When lightning strikes how is it guided at the person with the appropriate karma?
    Or was that just bad luck?
    That kind of question is “imponderable” because there is no good answer for it...

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    kamma is a process, not a thing.
    It's like asking where electricity is....
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Karma means "action", most notably, action performed with 'self' attachment. When karma is done, it is finished, it remains in the past. But the results or fruits of that karma, which are called 'vipaka', remain embedded in the mind-heart, what Buddha called the 'citta'. That which is stored in & re-arises out of the citta is known by mind-consciousness (mano-vinanna).

    Therefore, the results of karma (karma-vipaka) are located in the citta (mind-heart).

    This^
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    Subtle consciousness migrating to another body does not answer your question.
    The real problem about karmic consequences is that the outside world somehow has to be influenced along lines we don’t see or understand.

    When lightning strikes how is it guided at the person with the appropriate karma?
    Or was that just bad luck?
    That kind of question is “imponderable” because there is no good answer for it...

    Good answer.

    The best, and still incomplete, answer I can come with is that karma is a direction, a vector, not a thing. Time pushes us along, and when we talk about our karma, we're talking about where our actions have pointed us to. If we are like a boat, some karma directions are taking us into dangerous storms and reefs. Your actions might change the karma, the direction, or take you further along the same path.

    And we are in a multitude of boats all sailing along, bumping into each other and shouting at each other. Their actions effect your karma direction and your decisions effect them.

    But it's still a metaphor. We aren't boats.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 2012
    @AstralProjectee See my latest post on the Karma, Consciousness and Rebirth thread for a summary of the info on the first link "person" provided.
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