Smoking .....

minimayhen88

Dearest all,

Would any of you consider smoking a violation of the First Precept. I am finding it so hard to stop smoking, most days I smoke no more that 3 .... but I worry my 'second hand smoke' is harming others. When I smoke in public I try and blow smoke away from those I am with. I only really smoke around fellow smokers, but even with them I try and blow the smoke away from them. It is a hard one, but I would love to read your opinions.

Claudie :wave:

Cinorjer

In Buddhist countries, there are campaigns now trying to get the monks to stop smoking, where once some estimates put over half of the monks smoked. It's still tough going for them. I think the biggest thing that helped was trying to get people not to leave cigerettes as offerings. We have some people here that can tell you if we still see monks smoking in public, at least. So, you're in good company.

I used to smoke and quit along with my wife because she had bad health problems and we were going broke buying them. So I had help, because neither of us was going to quit on our own and when I felt like lighting up, I could think of it causing my wife to light up again and grit my teeth instead. Those first couple of months I was miserable, so I certainly know what you're going through.

AMH

I am not at 14 days without, whew. I feel better in many ways but it is so hard. It is the hardest thing ever for me to quit and I had already quit for 20 years until my teenage daughters started.

Of course anything like this is not good, however there are also worse things to do.I know my middle daughter who has pretty big anxiety uses it to calm down. Since she can be quite dramatic I see how it helps. That makes it harder because it is a drug that affects you and helps as well as hurts.

I think if you want to quit you will need to look at the physical part of the addiction and the habit. I am still learning a few of my triggers and for those times I have the nicotine gum until I am more solid in changing the habit. But beating yourself up is also not going to help so find that middle way balance

vinlyn

I think you could make a case for it being against the First Precept because second hand smoke is harmful. But on the other hand that is not your intent. But, since you are now thinking about it...well maybe it is.

Like a smoky room, it's hazy!

Talisman

I am now over a year since I quit cold turkey. Just keep it up. I don't even think about it anymore. It actually helped to kind of be a bitch about it whenever I saw other people smoking, just talking about how bad it is for you, etc. It annoyed my friends and co-workers a bunch but you gotta do what you gotta do to kick the habit.

Dakini

If smoking violates the 1st precept, in that it risks setting the stage for cancer and therefore your own early death, then alcoholism would also be a violation of the 1st precept. Do you have any authorities in your Buddhist tradition that you could ask about this? It would be interesting to know their answer.

Mini: how do people get started smoking, anyway? What's the motivation? Doesn't it burn your throat? Isn't that painful?

vinlyn

If smoking violates the 1st precept, in that it risks setting the stage for cancer and therefore your own early death, then alcoholism would also be a violation of the 1st precept. Do you have any authorities in your Buddhist tradition that you could ask about this? It would be interesting to know their answer.

Mini: how do people get started smoking, anyway? What's the motivation? Doesn't it burn your throat? Isn't that painful?

There's already a Precept about alcohol.

Dakini

We know that. Did you really think we didn't, seriously? From Mini's perspective, alcoholism (as opposed to occasional or moderate use of alcohol) could additionally be a violation of the First Precept.

akademon

I used to smoke. Though not a heavy smoker, still it was hard to quit, but I put it this way: I saw it as a battle field where the two contestants, my will to quit and my habit were at at fight to the death, so to speak, and the will to quit had to win. It was a yes or yes, situation. Failure wasn't an option. Believe or not I quit. It took a while. Just say no and stick with it. No retreat, no surrender. You'll feel the difference. And it's not just about the precept, it's also about your health and others. Regards.

mind7

It's good that you're being aware and not blowing smoke into other peoples' space when you smoke, but you also have to consider another thing-yourself. You should have compassion for others, but sometimes people forget that you should also love and do no harm to yourself.

With love

ConnorJames

Forget the Precepts, you shouldn't smoke cigarettes for any reason

Cinorjer

As an ex-smoker, a few observations I pass out once in a while about helping smokers:

1. We know smoking is bad for our health. You don't have to tell us. We know we shouldn't be smoking. You don't have to tell us that, either. My grandparents knew smoking was bad for the health. That's why they were called "coffin nails". Telling us something we're already telling ourselves every time we light up is not helping.

2. Quitting is hard for anyone. Almost everyone who has smoked for a while has tried multiple times to quit. It's not just the craving. It's the fact that you're craving while surrounded with opportunities to buy another pack of cigarettes. I tried quitting at least a dozen times before I succeeded.

3. So encouragement and cheer them on. And if someone smokes, it doesn't make them weak or thoughtless or ignorant, just a smoker.

minimayhen88

(^_^) Hi Dakini

If smoking violates the 1st precept, in that it risks setting the stage for cancer and therefore your own early death, then alcoholism would also be a violation of the 1st precept. Do you have any authorities in your Buddhist tradition that you could ask about this? It would be interesting to know their answer.

Mini: how do people get started smoking, anyway? What's the motivation? Doesn't it burn your throat? Isn't that painful?

Yes, it would be really interesting to know their opinion :-) and I think you are right, drinking in excess is really a violation of the first precept, in that it has a negative impact upon ones body - via dehydration, toxic liver damage etc.

Dakini: how do people get started smoking, anyway?

Well to be honest, I personally smoked firstly as a relaxant, in my bedroom secretly, when I was about 17!!.. and a very unhappy and stressed individual. Then when I left home at 18 and lived with some wonderful international students, a couple of them smoked ... so I did socially. From then on, a majority of my closest friends are smokers ... so I smoke a little with them ... and now I'm addicted!!!

Too be honest (this maybee a little over analytical!!!) I personally think I associate smoking with relaxation and .... because I'm quite a nervous person and they give me something to occupy my hands with and a sense of relaxation.

I'm struggling not to smoke! I know I wont because I do not wish to pollute myself or others ..... But its harder than I though ... but I'm determined!!.

With sincere Kindness,

Claudie xx

Dakini

Aha. Smoking to relax. A nervous person. How about meditating to relax? Now you're hooked on the nicotine, though, that's a challenge. But I'm sure you're aware that there are healthier ways to relax. Welcome to Buddhism. Step by step, little by little.

I was thinking smoking and alcoholism might be against the first precept because they're a means of slow death. But if Fo Guang Shan interprets the 1st precept as no harming in general, whether self or others, then yeah, even if death isn't the eventual result, it's harming. An aunt of mine got emphysema from smoking. Just something to keep in mind.

possibilities

I'm struggling not to smoke! I know I wont because I do not wish to pollute myself or others ..... But its harder than I though ... but I'm determined!!.

With sincere Kindness,

Claudie xx

Keep it up, it is so totally worth the effort! Congrats so far

:thumbsup:

ZendoLord84

not the first...the fifth...

it's a poison that afflicts one mind...and body
causes addiction, addiction is attachment.

Florian

Yes, it seems to me also that addiction is a failure of detachment. I should know, having been hooked on roll-ups for fifty years. Definitely going to quit, no doubt about it, never has been, but not today...

Mind you, two friends of a friend quit recently and both died soon after, which gives my highly devious mental demons a good excuse for putting off the decision. All the same, my feeling is that shortening ones life through unnecessary indulgences cannot possibly be in the spirit of the precepts. I wish it were otherwise.

ittybittybat

Hm, I think there's an argument for or against that. It does not alter your state of mind at the time you are smoking, but if it becomes an addiction, then yes, it does alter your mind. I smoke cigarettes occasionally (once every three or so months), and I am careful not to inhale it into my lungs so I don't get addicted.

Lookingformyway

There is also the argument from multiple, legitimate organizations and branches of the UN ,of smoking adding towards air pollution and adding toward GHS emissions, which in turn is causing the planet to warm up and causing serious issues for ecosystems, thus destroy even more life. Not also this, the way in which tobacco is farmed causes server soil erosion and soil damage over a decade. This ultmatley leads to larger sections of land clearance to make room for large tobacco crop rotations. This obviously damages the environment in multiple way, soil become polluted and toxically drained, soil erosion leads to massive issue with surrounding soil which cuts down plant life, which sustains ecosystems, and us.

Dakini

Wow, @Lookingformyway, you've really done some research! That's amazing, I never knew all that. Thank you for posting.

Lookingformyway

I took a double minor in Environmental Science and Studies. This was one of my thesis papers I had to write: The Tobacco industry, more than human suffering

Dakini

Mono-cropping in general is a destructive process. I remember reading that when the first batches of colonists first arrived, the local Natives gave them land. But after just a few years, they'd need more land, because their European farming practices would trash the land, so they kept coming back to the Natives for more land, more land.

Weird. Completely dysfunctional farming practices. One wonders how they managed to survive in Europe for hundreds of years, farming that way.

Zayl

I love smoking, especially the social aspect of it. Nothing like standing in a circle with your friends, clouds of smoke hanging between you as you chat about what's been going on. The topic of the conversation seeming to be as whimsical as the smoke itself. I plan to quit one day, but not yet. I must say though that I think it is a huge mistake to have non smokers make the smoking laws. As it stand where I live, I can smoke in my house or my car, or if I feel like standing on the edge of town, that's fine too.

Oh and don't forget that there are no exceptions, even for winter. So I'm usually forced to freeze my balls off. The way it should be? allow the building owners to decide whether or not to allow smoking. That way some places will allow smoking, while others do not. Or have the option for places to have an outdoor section of the restaurant or bar, where smoking is allowed. When I was out in Oregon there was this one bar in Ashland. Beautiful place. The outdoor section had nice big heat lamps that would be on during the winter as well as a pavilion roof. Felt just as comfortable as inside the building, and that way smokers could smoke and non smokers wouldn't have to smell it.

Dakini

How/why did you start smoking, Zayl?

Arthurbodhi

We know that. Did you really think we didn't, seriously? From Mini's perspective, alcoholism (as opposed to occasional or moderate use of alcohol) could additionally be a violation of the First Precept.

Totally agree with this.
In my country (and I think in others) the principal cause of cars accident with death result is alcohol, not much time ago a kid that was thinking in be a running man when growth up was crash by a drunk driver and lost his two legs.

This cause a great media shock, so that government have to make strict laws about driving with alcohol.

Arthurbodhi

About smoking I like this :

"Is smoking against Buddhism?

Strictly speaking, Buddhism would not consider smoking to be morally incorrect.

However, serious practitioners of Buddhism who are already on this habit usually attempt to give it up. This is because smoking is a severe form of craving and attachment as it is extremely addictive. Also, smoking is harmful to oneself, as well as to others via the effects of second hand smoke. Thus if something is harmful to oneself and also to others, it cannot be viewed positively in Buddhism."

From Just be Good booklet.

Blessings with metta.

Zayl

Started a few years back in the beginning of highschool. A lot of my family smoked, so did most of my friends, so eventually I picked it up.

Dakini

You and your friends started smoking at...14? Beginning of HS? My parents smoked, it made my brothers and me gag. None of the family in my generation smokes.

Oh well. Don't mind me... Maybe it has something to do with that backwoods hunting culture you're in?

Cinorjer

I started smoking when I was 21, because in the military the bunker I worked in only let the smokers outside to take breaks. So I started smoking to get some fresh air. Hey, it's not like there's a smart reason to start smoking.

Dakini

First, when I read your post, I thought, well, that's pretty smart, that's survival. Smoking gets you an extra privilege, so you go for it.

Then it hit me: you're polluting your lungs in order to get fresh air into them?? Life's little ironies.

Steve108

In my opinion smoking is in violation of the first precept. The vow to refrain from taking life also includes yours and not just others. I smoked for ten years, gave up for seven, smoked another three and I am now fifteen weeks smoke free. Now I am off the smokes I don't feel a hypocrite when reciting my precepts.

vinlyn

In my opinion smoking is in violation of the first precept. The vow to refrain from taking life also includes yours and not just others. I smoked for ten years, gave up for seven, smoked another three and I am now fifteen weeks smoke free. Now I am off the smokes I don't feel a hypocrite when reciting my precepts.

:thumbsup:

Florian

Smoking seems to be a good example of the ultimate impotence of logic and reason in changing behaviour. I started at 14 and have had many decades of doing it, and even my confidence in Buddhism and my certainty of the value of managing my desires and practicing non-attachment isn't enough to shake my desire and attachment. It's ridiculous. Of course it's not the right thing to do, this is blindingly obvious.

Now for a cup of tea and a smoke.

Mind you, I doubt I would have discovered Buddhism had I not smoked, but that's a long story.

sndymorn

As an ex smoker, I love the smell of second hand smoke and gravitate towards it. I have not smoked in ten years.

caz

Smoking is also a violation of the 5th precept.

Jeffrey

Caz, smoking is not much of an intoxicant. Is tea/coffee a violation?

caz

Jeffrey said:

Caz, smoking is not much of an intoxicant. Is tea/coffee a violation?

This is the Precept as I received it a few weeks ago, Smoking is included because it is hazardous to Tantric practitioners. Tea and coffee are fine.

Jeffrey

Oh, that makes sense. I just didn't think it was intoxicating. Harmful to health.. yes.

caz

Jeffrey said:

Oh, that makes sense. I just didn't think it was intoxicating. Harmful to health.. yes.

Its classed as a Dangerous Intoxicant to be thoroughly avoided, Its known to increase the 3 poisons.

Jeffrey

By your guru or is there a text? I don't find smoking very intoxicating. I smoke a pipe about 3 to 5 times a day. When you smoke a pipe you do not inhale the smoke.

caz

Jeffrey said:

By your guru or is there a text? I don't find smoking very intoxicating. I smoke a pipe about 3 to 5 times a day. When you smoke a pipe you do not inhale the smoke.

There is a piece on Tobacco that was posted here some time ago. My teacher has said it is prohibited under the 5th precept so I am bound to follow this instruction. I can ask and find out where it is said and will post it here when I find it.

Jeffrey

No you don't have to find out if you don't want to. I was just curious. We've had someone post negative ads on tobacco here, but the problem was they were citing a text from before the new world was discovered (1492); there wasn't tobacco before Christopher Columbus.

RebeccaS

sndymorn said:

As an ex smoker, I love the smell of second hand smoke and gravitate towards it. I have not smoked in ten years.

That's so funny, I'm a smoker and I love smoking, but I can't bear the smell of other people's smoke.

Jason

minimayhen88 said:

Would any of you consider smoking a violation of the First Precept. I am finding it so hard to stop smoking, most days I smoke no more that 3 .... but I worry my 'second hand smoke' is harming others. When I smoke in public I try and blow smoke away from those I am with. I only really smoke around fellow smokers, but even with them I try and blow the smoke away from them. It is a hard one, but I would love to read your opinions.

No, not unless your intent is to hurt yourself or others; the precepts are all about intent.

While smoking itself may be harmful to your health, most people do so because they find it enjoyable and/or their mind/body craves it. Of course, it's not really good for you or those around you, but I don't think it violates the first precept if your not trying to intentionally cause harm (and it sounds like you're trying to do the opposite by blowing it away from others). This is coming from a Theravadin perspective, however, and other traditions may have different views about it.

sova

healthy lungs are a rare commodity

Jeffrey

I have a chemical imbalance which results in schizophrenia. 75% of schizophrenics smoke and the causality I believe is that the nicotine helps cut through some of the sleepiness, scratch that, drugged feeling. Sometimes smoking helps me get clear and I then can meditate which makes me think that the good (for me) of smoking may outweigh the negative.

I've also lost over a quarter of my body weight and though there were a combination of factors smoking surely helped me lose weight. Huge gut fat is probably nearly as harmful as non-inhaling (pipe) smoking.

I don't want to practice tantra. And in any case I eat onions and baked cheese haha.

lamaramadingdong

Forget about precepts- just do a simple pros/cons list. Only pro I could ever come up with was "I like it". Took a long time to listen to the logic though. Good luck.

buddhakai

ConnorJames said:

Forget the Precepts, you shouldn't smoke cigarettes for any reason

This kind of thing does not help anyone. I am in the middle of trying to wean myself off of cigarettes. The E-cigs are a big stepping stone I think, they help a lot without introducing the hot smoke. One of the biggest things for me is just noticing the urges and examining them. Middle path, don't deprive yourself, and don't judge yourself. The more I examine the reasons I smoke and just observe the habitual tendencies as they arise, the more smoking falls off for me. I went from a pack a day down to 2 or 3 like this.

vinlyn

Jason said:

minimayhen88 said:

Would any of you consider smoking a violation of the First Precept. I am finding it so hard to stop smoking, most days I smoke no more that 3 .... but I worry my 'second hand smoke' is harming others. When I smoke in public I try and blow smoke away from those I am with. I only really smoke around fellow smokers, but even with them I try and blow the smoke away from them. It is a hard one, but I would love to read your opinions.

No, not unless your intent is to hurt yourself or others; the precepts are all about intent.

While smoking itself may be harmful to your health, most people do so because they find it enjoyable and/or their mind/body craves it. Of course, it's not really good for you or those around you, but I don't think it violates the first precept if your not trying to intentionally cause harm (and it sounds like you're trying to do the opposite by blowing it away from others). This is coming from a Theravadin perspective, however, and other traditions may have different views about it.

If you know smoke is harmful to others, and you still put them in a position of inhaling your second hand smoke, then yes, I think it would be a violation of the Precept.

lamaramadingdong

This is what finally helped me...(understanding)

http://whyquit.com/joel/ntap.pdf

karasti

As I say this, keep in mind that I do drink. Very little and on very rare occasion, but it's there. I don't see how smoking and drinking are much different. Smoking changes your brain chemistry, it's why people get addicted to the nicotine. It does not, once you are addicted, cause the change to faculties that drinking does, but it still causes a change in your brain, in your behaviors and habits and thinking that were not there when you did not smoke.

I tried smoking once. It made me as light headed, and as poorly feeling as the first time I drank too much.

I think if anything in your life has so much control over you that it's obsessive or compulsive (not talking OCD as a mental illness here) that it can be considered to break the 5th precept. Some things are more a stretch than others, and only the person affected can be honest with themselves about how much the habit affects them. I don't get any feeling at all when I drink. I might have a small glass of wine with dinner. However, the very nature of alcohol changes my brain in some small ways, even if they are imperceptible to me. Nicotine is the same way.

I think with intent, you still have to be careful. If you are a smoker and you do what you can to minimize how much it affects others and follow the laws, then no problem. If you have kids and you smoke in the home and in the car with them? More of a problem despite what your intent is.