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Wheel of life - fascinating

LookingformywayLookingformyway
edited April 2012 in Buddhism Basics
So since starting this journey my sleep has gone out the window. Why, well, when i was studying Political Science in Uni, I developed this trait of when completely indulged in a subject or course or interest my brain would go into overdrive and all I wanted to do was learn, read, research etc. So this is where I am at now, I have spend most nights reading, and studying.

I know, I should give myself some time for peace, but right now the more i learn the more i need/want to learn.

Anyway, so last night I spend all but my 3 hours of sleep reading on the "wheel of life" and studying the diagram such as this one:

image

Now, this entire section of Buddhism fascinates me and I am completely indulged in reading everything I can on the wheel of life, completely, utterly, fascinating!

I am curious, what are peoples opinions are on the wheel of life? what aspects of the drawing, structure fascinates you the most? What section confuses you the most? Is it normal to become so fascinating as I have become with this aspect of Buddhism and the wheel.

I also have these questions, which although you would have thought my reading would have answered, i still haven't been able to find a definitive answer to.

1) Do the rebirths happen in the sequence according to the wheel of life? What I mean by this is right now I am living in ht human realm, it is obvious coming to Buddhism so late that I will not reach enlightenment. due to this will I be reborn in the next realm in the sequence which is the god realm, or can you be reborn in ANY realm, in any particular order.

2) Are the "realms" different worlds so to speak, or are they different social worlds here on earth. What I mean by this is, for example, I am in the human realm, the every day, typical part of society. People in the God realm, who have no worried, and are ignorant to enlightenment as they do not see themselves as having suffering are those such as billionaires, cooperate bigwigs etc. In short: Are these realms, different worlds all together or are they different social divisions within society? Me= human realm. Murder - Demon realm etc etc.

3) As I have and worked in political Environmental policy and the environmental sector the animal realm is fascinating to me. There are multiple parts to this question:

i) Are Animals or can animals be reborn from a human?

ii) How to animals break out of the animal realm? due to the argument that live in the "now" and have no idea of the concept of suffering(not that this is my belief)

ii) Could a Bodhisattva be reborn as an animal in order to help someone gain peace, and possible enlightenment. An example, my Irish wolfhound brings me great peace, he helps calm me and ground me. At times I can be stressed and he can simply lay his head on my lap look at me, and he puts everything into perspective.

iv) What is the role of an animal?

v) Now, how can any buddhist (I am not attacking) NOT be a vegetarian, when eating such an animal, and condoning slaughter for food is inflicting suffering upon an Ātman.

vi) Are animals able to become enlightened? Or is enlightenment only capable of being reached in human realm


Thanks for your time here guys/gals.

Wheel of Life - FASCINATING!

Sorry for grammar/spelling etc. My keyboard is ruined and I am heading out to buy a new one today: bare with me.

Comments

  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    I know this thirst for knowledge...

    It's the joy of discovering

    :)
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Whether or not the realms are "real" or metaphorical, i.e. states of mind, is hotly debated, although it's clear in the Pali Canon the Buddha taught they were real.

    Bodhisattvas can choose to be reborn in lower realms (hell, animal, hungry ghost) in order to help the beings their advance toward enlightenment. Humans can be reborn as animals. Watch your P's and Q's in this lifetime, or you'll end up reborn in a lower realm. We just had a post on how animals can be reborn as humans. It's not just about helping humans, it's about realizing the dharma, or something. (This is outside of our view of reality, our scientific paradigm.)

    Re: vegetarianism--please do some searches to turn up our vegetarianism threads. Atman, btw, is a Hindu term, not a Buddhist one. The best way to do a search is via Google. Enter "NewBuddhist", then your topic of inquiry.

    Only humans can attain Enlightenment, that's why the human rebirth is so precious.
  • ToshTosh Veteran
    The centre of the wheel of life, greed, hate and delusion are probably quite important things to understand; they're the fuel for the wheel of life. If you believe in rebirth, these are the things that create the karma that propel us from life to life. If you don't believe in rebirth, these are the things that can create suffering (an unhappy life).
  • LookingformywayLookingformyway
    edited April 2012
    I didn't believe atman was a Hindu term, i thought it was used for both.


    http://www.buddhism-guide.com/buddhism/atman_(buddhism).htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ātman_(Buddhism)
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    @Lookingformyway I see there are differences between how Buddhism uses "Atman" and how Hinduism does. Your link says "Atman" in Buddhism can mean soul (but there is no soul in Buddhist belief, so I'm not sure how that fits in), or self. Yes, Buddhism did use the term "Atman" in discussions of "self", you're right there.

    Our OP used the term Atman in a different sense, though, or maybe he could clarify what he meant by "inflicting suffering on an Atman". I don't recognize this usage of the Atman as a Buddhist one, that's what provoked my reaction. Thanks for your links.
  • LookingformywayLookingformyway
    "Inflicting suffering on an atman"

    Exatcly as you said, in buddhism it refers to self, so inflicting suffering on "an atman" would be inflicting suffering upon the self of the being, in this case, the atman/self of an animal.


    Maybe I need to sleep, and am getting myself confused, trying to digest to much, to quickly. :)
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    No, it makes sense, I thought you might mean that, it's just an unusual turn of phrase.
  • LookingformywayLookingformyway
    Sorry for the confusion. I will pick my words more wisely :) thank your comments Dakini
    The centre of the wheel of life, greed, hate and delusion are probably quite important things to understand; they're the fuel for the wheel of life. If you believe in rebirth, these are the things that create the karma that propel us from life to life. If you don't believe in rebirth, these are the things that can create suffering (an unhappy life).
    Thank you for your thoughts Tosh!
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    Now, this entire section of Buddhism fascinates me and I am completely indulged in reading everything I can on the wheel of life, completely, utterly, fascinating!

    I am curious, what are peoples opinions are on the wheel of life? what aspects of the drawing, structure fascinates you the most? What section confuses you the most? Is it normal to become so fascinating as I have become with this aspect of Buddhism and the wheel.
    I also have these questions, which although you would have thought my reading would have answered, i still haven't been able to find a definitive answer to.

    1) Do the rebirths happen in the sequence according to the wheel of life? What I mean by this is right now I am living in ht human realm, it is obvious coming to Buddhism so late that I will not reach enlightenment. due to this will I be reborn in the next realm in the sequence which is the god realm, or can you be reborn in ANY realm, in any particular order.
    No, anyone can be reborn in any realm after death. The direction of rebirth is determined by our karma and particularly by the karma we generate at the moment of death.
    2) Are the "realms" different worlds so to speak, or are they different social worlds here on earth. What I mean by this is, for example, I am in the human realm, the every day, typical part of society. People in the God realm, who have no worried, and are ignorant to enlightenment as they do not see themselves as having suffering are those such as billionaires, cooperate bigwigs etc. In short: Are these realms, different worlds all together or are they different social divisions within society? Me= human realm. Murder - Demon realm etc etc.
    This is a topic of debate. The traditional asian view is that when we die a continuation of us gets reborn in a new realm. The more metaphorical approach is also used and is effective as an understanding for practice. You decide which is right, good luck.
    3) As I have and worked in political Environmental policy and the environmental sector the animal realm is fascinating to me. There are multiple parts to this question:

    i) Are Animals or can animals be reborn from a human?
    Yes
    ii) How to animals break out of the animal realm? due to the argument that live in the "now" and have no idea of the concept of suffering(not that this is my belief)
    Its very hard to get out of the lower realms once one is in them because the opportunity and the ability to generate the ethical or virtuous behavior required is tough to do. The human birth is said to be rare and precious so take advantage.
    ii) Could a Bodhisattva be reborn as an animal in order to help someone gain peace, and possible enlightenment. An example, my Irish wolfhound brings me great peace, he helps calm me and ground me. At times I can be stressed and he can simply lay his head on my lap look at me, and he puts everything into perspective.
    They say bodhisattvas can choose their rebirth and at times will choose a birth in the lower realms to help the beings there. Your dog is probably just a nice and compassionate dog though.
    iv) What is the role of an animal?
    Meaning in Buddhism is relative to the situation. So an animal doesn't have a specific, universal type role to play. You can say the role of your dog is to eat, sleep, play, and make you feel better, though.
    v) Now, how can any buddhist (I am not attacking) NOT be a vegetarian, when eating such an animal, and condoning slaughter for food is inflicting suffering upon an Ātman.
    Too complex and hot of a topic for a small answer. Buddhism uses atman but only to say that it ultimatly doesn't exist or anatman.
    vi) Are animals able to become enlightened? Or is enlightenment only capable of being reached in human realm
    Not in general, I think there is a mythological type animal called a naga (something like a dragon I think) that I think is able to (don't quote me on that.) Basically though no they can't while in an animal body. They can eventually be born as a human and then attain enlightenment. I also think it is possible to attain enlightenment as a god. Human rebirth is said to be the best though since we have they right mix of suffering to prod us on, enough freedom from pain to develop positive qualities and the mental capacity to do so.


  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran


    I am curious, what are peoples opinions are on the wheel of life? what aspects of the drawing, structure fascinates you the most? What section confuses you the most? Is it normal to become so fascinating as I have become with this aspect of Buddhism and the wheel.
    I think it's a cool representation of Buddhist cosmology, but I don't pay much attention to it. Call me a heretic, but I just focus on the sitting.

    @person gave you good answers to your questions. However, I'd like to point out one thing:
    it is obvious coming to Buddhism so late that I will not reach enlightenment.
    I don't think you should worry about that. It's not called the "Middle Way" for nothing - the way or path is more important than the end result. So just meditate and not worry about "not reaching enlightenment." Who ever told you that you're "too old" to be enlightened anyway?



  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    anation
    it might correct or wrong
    you have to think about it

    five faces on the head of Yakka (devil) indicate five maras (pancca-mara)

    the big Yakka indicates our own unskilfulness (greed/hate/delusion)

    12 sectors of the outer wheel indicates 12 links of Dpendent Origination
    ears, nose, eyes, tongue, body (hands, legsetc.) indicate our five faculties

    the middle circle indicates our mind and peacock in it indicates our delusion (proud/I/my/mine), serpent indicates our hate, pig indicates our greed

    2nd circle indicates human and animal world which we can see

    6 sectors of the third circle indicates different life styles of people and animal according to their kamma creation (have to check the picture more clearly to analyse thease six sectors)

    people over the clouds are devas who are out of the grasp of yakka (mara)
    they indicate non-returners to this world any more

    other side of the clouds shown only the Dharma Wheel which indicates Arahants or enlightedment


    it seems every line, sector, picture has its own meaning about Buddhas' Teaching
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