TITLE CHANGE: Ok it's... Questions to an Atheist - answered

zenff

As an atheist do you have all the answers?
Nope

For me; that’s the crucial line.
Being atheist is about attempting to answer question on the basis of our observations, our interpretations and our own choices in life.
There’s no divine source of infallible knowledge.

person

Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity or deities, even by @zenff's description above, I'm an athiest. So aren't we really talking about reductionism or physicalism (a philosophical position holding that everything which exists is no more extensive than its physical properties; that is, that there are no kinds of things other than physical things)?

zenff

@person
I think as an atheist we don’t have the solution of attributing everything we can’t explain to the gods or to the one God.
What is thunder when the myth about it is rejected? What is consciousness when it isn’t something God put in his human creations?

There’s an element of reductionism to asking such questions, but I’m not sure it leads to the mentioned physicalism necessarily.

person

Yes, an open, 'don't know', beginner's mind is best. But this thread is for an Ist to answer questions about their Ism.

DairyLama

Atheists often pride themselves on being "moral" or "good" without needing to follow a religion or a philosophy derived from religion.

Do people really need religion to tell them the difference between right an wrong?

DaftChris

@porpoise

I'm not saying people need to. I'm just saying that atheists can, & often, say that they don't nessacerily need an ancient book to tell them what's right and what's wrong.

Lady_Alison

I'm an abrahamic monotheist (Muslim liberal) ... I don't have very many unpleasant conversations with any religion either. My approach is sincere curiosity and a willingness to see commonality instead of differences. I live in Texas, the Bible belt. Islam and atheism are a minority and I feel empathy towards any group considered the under dog.

I seek to understand, rather than be understood. To listen, rather than be listened too. To give mercy, rather than to be offered mercy.

I imagine that atheists (passive) practice and have perfected a form of compassion. Kinda like what I gathered from below.

I am pro gay marriage, pro contraceptives, but I don't support abortion. I agree that secularism is the moderate way in government, schools and laws.

Religion should be practiced inward...

Do you feel a need to debate Christians over God? If so, why? What's the point? Why does it matter that their reasoning is silly? Why does it even matter that they believe in god? Some people act like they are on some kind of mission out to prove that god doesn't exist. Why? What's the point? Do they really think that they can convince a god fearing christian that god does not exist? Belief in god isn't based on reason or logic. It's based on faith, is it not? Trying to reason out an idea that is not based on reason to begin with, itself unreasonable, is it not?

Seeker, I agree with you. I am usually willing to talk to people about religion...even those who come to my door (if I happen to have time). And in all my life (and I'm 62), I've only had one conversation that could be considered the slightest bit unpleasant...although I actually saw it as being quite interesting. Right now I'm living in Colorado Springs, which is perhaps the most evangelical city in the Rocky Mountain states, and I've yet to be approached by evangelicals.

Honestly, I think those who have these unpleasant encounters with people from various denominations must go out looking for them.

BonsaiDoug

I don't have very many unpleasant conversations with any religion either.

Nor do I. Even those who choose to knock on my door early Saturday mornings. :-/

I've no problems with folk who choose to believe in a "god." I'm just a bit confused about a god who takes attendance.

vinlyn

I don't have very many unpleasant conversations with any religion either.

Nor do I. Even those who choose to knock on my door early Saturday mornings. :-/

I've no problems with folk who choose to believe in a "god." I'm just a bit confused about a god who takes attendance.

The Methodist Church I attend every month...or so...actually does take attendance.

DairyLama

@porpoise

I'm not saying people need to. I'm just saying that atheists can, & often, say that they don't nessacerily need an ancient book to tell them what's right and what's wrong.

It seems that a lot of people do need to be told, which is quite odd really.

Cinorjer

An old atheist friend of mine used to say, "I tell religious believers I'm the same as them, I just believe in one less God than they do."

My question to other atheists is, do you ever look up at the stars in silence and marvel at the one miracle we all know exists: the miracle of a conscious mind comprehending the beauty of the universe from which it was born?

I don't care if you believe some celestial old man in a robe or aliens or evolutionary chance created the miracle. If you see and cherish it as a miracle, then we have nothing to disagree about that matters.

DairyLama

My question to other atheists is, do you ever look up at the stars in silence and marvel at the one miracle we all know exists: the miracle of a conscious mind comprehending the beauty of the universe from which it was born?

I think that's an experience anyone can have. As you say, how it all came to be seems irrelevant.

Lady_Alison

Do people really picture God as some man with a beard, dressed like a 4th century bc., Roman Senator?

Weird! I picture him/her as energy and light. Maybe I'm wrong.

An old atheist friend of mine used to say, "I tell religious believers I'm the same as them, I just believe in one less God than they do."

My question to other atheists is, do you ever look up at the stars in silence and marvel at the one miracle we all know exists: the miracle of a conscious mind comprehending the beauty of the universe from which it was born?

I don't care if you believe some celestial old man in a robe or aliens or evolutionary chance created the miracle. If you see and cherish it as a miracle, then we have nothing to disagree about that matters.

person

Do people really picture God as some man with a beard, dressed like a 4th century bc., Roman Senator?

Weird! I picture him/her as energy and light. Maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, its really important to define what someone means by God before its possible to make an arguement as to why God doesn't exist.

In Buddhism the type of God that is denied is a creator seperate from the rest of the universe since cause and effect and interdependence are principle aspects of Buddhist philosophy. Not necessarily that there isn't some kind of metaphysical aspect to the world that touches everything.

Bekenze

Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity or deities, even by @zenff's description above, I'm an athiest. So aren't we really talking about reductionism or physicalism (a philosophical position holding that everything which exists is no more extensive than its physical properties; that is, that there are no kinds of things other than physical things)?

No, we're talking about atheism. That's the thing... people think atheism is something it isn't.

Bekenze

An old atheist friend of mine used to say, "I tell religious believers I'm the same as them, I just believe in one less God than they do."

My question to other atheists is, do you ever look up at the stars in silence and marvel at the one miracle we all know exists: the miracle of a conscious mind comprehending the beauty of the universe from which it was born?

Yep.

Sagat

I'm an atheist (kinda) too. These are actually questions I ask myself a lot.

Other people are going to give their own answers too. Just know that I've tried to make them concise and short. There's a question regarding Israel. I know there's a lot of history behind Israel. I didn't ask anything about it's history. I only said about it's religious status. I say this as a strong supporter of Israel.

1, Say hypothetically that there is a god and he's either Yahweh or Allah? Do you think you could love a god that eternally tortures people who don't live life by Christianity/Islam? Remembering that if you don't love him, then you go there too.

2, Do you find the concept of Hell the epitome of Evil? If so, how do you look at people who believe it exists and is happy knowing (thinking) that there's a universe of fire and torture where people spend eternity writing in agonizing pain? Do you see them as evil? Or just people who think that way because of something evil?

3, Do you think that religion is the root of (not all) a great deal of evil in the world? Israel and Iran are possibly going to be the next countries to launch nuclear strikes because of religious differences (read above if you haven't already). If not, then Pakistan and India may do soon too. Why? Religion. Religion and politics are a dangerous mix to world safety and freedom. You're American (I assume) your country has tonnes of ridiculous laws because of it's strong affiliation with Christianity.

4, Do you view strict ideologies like Communism or Nazism, to be the same general thing as religion? Do you view a swastika as having the same general purpose as a cross. Or a hammer as sickle the same as a crescent moon and star?

5, Do you want there to be a god? Do you want there to be an afterlife?

6, Do you think that the organised religions (not spirituality) play an important, positive part in the world? Would you like to see it phase out at some point in your lifetime?

I ask these because I personally don't know. Stuff I'm on the fence about.

person

Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity or deities, even by @zenff's description above, I'm an athiest. So aren't we really talking about reductionism or physicalism (a philosophical position holding that everything which exists is no more extensive than its physical properties; that is, that there are no kinds of things other than physical things)?

No, we're talking about atheism. That's the thing... people think atheism is something it isn't.

@Bekenze do you belief in life after death or psychic phenomena? These aren't about a diety.

Bekenze

@Bekenze do you belief in life after death or psychic phenomena? These aren't about a diety.

No, but that has nothing to do with my atheism. That has to do with my skepticism, which my atheism is a bi-product of.

person

@Bekenze do you belief in life after death or psychic phenomena? These aren't about a diety.

No, but that has nothing to do with my atheism. That has to do with my skepticism, which my atheism is a bi-product of.

That's what I mean though. I do believe in those things but I would also call myself an athiest. If you listen to the big voices in atheism, Richard Dawkins, Tim Minchin, Penn, as well as others you don't just hear that they don't believe in God but that they don't believe in anything non physical. So technically maybe atheism isn't these other things but practically its associated with them, rightly or wrongly. Probably in much the same way that Islam gets associated with terrorism or Christianity gets associated with evangelizing.

Jeffrey

@B5C, What do you think of (this form I describe) devotional practices? The Tibetan word for prayer has no subject or object. My lama goes one step further and translates it as 'open'... The main prayer or 'pray' is to Guru Rinpoche who represents the natural purity of spontaneous responses. So it's hoping to evoke energy in a way.

So what do you think of that from a yogic first person experience of energy. I suppose some neurotransmitters are active when the 'pray' occurs just as with pharaceuticals.

So my lama says there are devotional practices. Trungpa Rinpoche of her lineage purposely said that his sangha was atheistic because in the 60s both in Buddhism and Christianity there was a lot of mindless happy clappy spiritual materialism. Sort of denial of suffering and limiting your realizing your own negative patterns and smoothing them over with devotional practice.

Thus in Buddhism I think you can say it's theistic in some sects, but also use atheistic.

Like Humpty Dumpty said 'words mean what you say they mean' :vimp:

DairyLama

Yeah, its really important to define what someone means by God before its possible to make an arguement as to why God doesn't exist.

I agree, but a lot of the people I've talked to about God aren't really sure what they believe in, so it gets really vague. :-/

Bekenze

A deity is typically seen as a distinct, immortal being that has some control in the workings of, or the creation of, the universe.

Lady_Alison

There is a difference between "immortal" and "eternal"... old argument...but the difference is that eternal mean something that subsist outside and inside time and can not die or be destroyed.

The soul, in western philosophy is eternal. God is eternal. A vampire would be considered immortal. . .

See Thomas Aquinas

Kwantum_Kev

cute thread..


God told me he exists and that he loves me... I know this is true because he said his word is the final proof because he is God.... and he said so. Refute this.

ok ok ...on a more serious note...

Theism ranges from the gronk-like world-view of Rick Santorum and Salifists of all stripes, to the truly sublime philosphical poetry found in the bhagavad gita , or the Upanishads. Painting both with the same brush is ignorant and simplistic.

The popular Athiests like Richard Dawkins are as oblivious to these distinctions as religious fundamentalists. Given that the "New Atheism" is a reaction to gronkish Theism... the new atheism is a mirror gronkish fundamentalist Atheism..

So my leading question is.... when will you guys take the pickle out and develop a subtle context-sensitive intelligence?. ....because it is getting lame.

@RichardH - positively BRILLIANT! I am going to copy this and perhaps put it on a wallet-sized card that I can carry with me to use when needed.

I only wish I could have come up with something so intelligent, argument-proof, insightful and well put.Just fabulous - thank you!

Many Blessings,

KwanKev

Kwantum_Kev

So here's my question : if you don't believe in "God", or A god, per se, what about something like "The Force" in Star Wars? A non-personal, yet seemingly altruistic force that pervades everything without assuming any human-like characteristics, but is there for those who wish to draw upon it for support in their quest to spread goodness, light and truth (helpful, it is, mmmm... Lol).

Is concept of "the Force" something an atheist could embrace?

Many Blessings,

KwanKev

Bekenze

@Kwantum_Kev

Technically an atheist could accept that idea, since the Force isn't a god, while still retaining their atheism.

Although, I personally wouldn't without sufficient evidence. I do have a feeling that there is some kind of thin veil of something.. "magical, supernatural, higher, mystical, metaphysical" or whatever term you want to use, whether it be the strings of String Theory or a universal consciousness, that is part of this world. Although, I have no evidence or any idea what it could be, so I just keep an open mind and say "I don't know" without taking any of it too seriously.

Bekenze

There is a difference between "immortal" and "eternal"... old argument...but the difference is that eternal mean something that subsist outside and inside time and can not die or be destroyed.

A deity can be immortal or eternal. Old pagan religions had "immortal" gods. The gods of the Abrahamic religions would be "eternal." Still, both are gods none-the-less.

Kwantum_Kev

@Bekenze - I like the way you put that, and it very closely resembles my thoughts on it. Although I would describe my views more as "knowing" than "feeling," based more on personal experience than anything I have read or learned.

Still though, the one thing I truly know is that I know very little, and of that I try to remain always conscious : )

Many Blessings,

KwanKev

federica

This thread closed by OP request.
Many thanks to everyone...

...so far....