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why do some Buddhist teachers say enlightenment is only attainable by a female?

evolveevolve Explorer
edited April 2012 in Buddhism Basics
I thought Buddhist teachings weren't sexist :/ but now I'm confused? Do all Buddhist believe this?
thank you

Comments

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Do you mean only attatinable by a male? That's what I've heard said before.

    The bodhisattva Tara is said to have made the vow to only be born as a female until samsara is emptied.
  • Enlightened can be defined all across the board as the cessation of ignorance, aversion and greed.

    thus it isn't something attained.

    but speaking directly to your question. both females and males can realize their inherent enlightened nature.

    thus teachers who teach this are either stupid or culturally bias. anyone who is a true and sincere practitioner will see the obvious absurdity of male verse female duality.
  • evolveevolve Explorer
    person, no they were talking about having to be female. I wouldn't think gender would matter though either way

    and taiyaki, I agree with you, and yeah it doesn't make sense that we'd have to be female to realize enlightenment
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    person, no they were talking about having to be female. I wouldn't think gender would matter though either way

    and taiyaki, I agree with you, and yeah it doesn't make sense that we'd have to be female to realize enlightenment
    Yeah, I don't see why gender would matter either, it always seemed like a cultural bias to me. I've honestly never heard it mentioned that enlightenment could only be in female form before. Who was the teacher? Maybe it was a way to challenge the old notion of the superiority of a male body?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    @evolve, it would be helpful if you could actually quote some sources or reference links to your comment.
    I personally have never heard any teacher make any such statement, so some kind of link to a creditable source would be helpful.
    Thanks!
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2012
    Just taking this as a thought problem how could a females mind be of a nature that could not be enlightened?

    A female has a different body and one chromosome different... I have always wondered if females have a different sort of mind, don't know how to architechturally, if you will, analyze.

    Any thought experiment ideas into how a male and female 'mind energies/structure' could be? In chemistry reactivity is always related to structure. So the question arises of how a females mind is structured differently from a males?

    The difference I have heard of is the corpus colossum (spelling) joining the two hemispheres of the brain is different with more mass and connections I guess. The right brain sees the big pictures and is religious and intuitive. The left brain is logical and sees details analytical and so forth.

    I would theorize that females are more integrated and can accomplish communication relationships more easily while integrating with order and activities. The male I imagine can focus on one function at a time. There is a big emphasis on hunting and rising to the top of the power in order to reproduce.

    That last sentence could explain social order with males involved because the society could echo the pattern of more hierarchy bread into males. Both in genes and memes. I am using the word meme loosely to refer to 'art is life and life is art' type of thing.

    Which is not to say that there were never cultures with 'the sacred feminine' but just that the hierarchy of males breading from monkey times even would influence the cultural.

    The shaky conclusion is that there could be a superstition of the power of males to touch God... going all down the line into the Buddhist culture.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2012
    As far as going back to a larger corpus collosum I wonder if it is harder to attain the meditative absorptions which may be involving energy strongly unbalanced in the right brain...


    In other words males might be more prone to satori? There are records of powerful female spiritualists in the Pali Canon though. I can't find this but I remember it from my Pali weekly aol meeting. I think that some had become arhats which is enlightened as I understand.

    Does this make sense to anyone?

    Ayya Khema, Pema Chodron, and my teacher Lama Shenpen, are some examples of modern powerful spiritual masters. Cheri Huber, Sharon Salzberg, many others.
  • snGussnGus Veteran
    I thought Buddhist teachings weren't sexist :/ but now I'm confused? Do all Buddhist believe this?
    thank you
    Sorry but where did you hear that only females can attain enlightenment?
  • ArthurbodhiArthurbodhi Mars Veteran
    A never hear that before.

    But I hear some buddhist nun say that they need reborn has a male monk for get enlightenment.

    But the Buddha never say something like that. Male and female are equal to follow the path to the ending of suffering.

    Blessing.
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited April 2012
    Whoever these teachers are, they must not be very interested in Buddhism anyway, considering they apparently forgot the Buddha was a man..
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    I thought Buddhist teachings weren't sexist :/ but now I'm confused? Do all Buddhist believe this?
    thank you
    There are actually quite a few Buddhist texts that can be construed as sexist.

    Just off the top of my head: the whole trope of women being vain and so the Buddha or one of his disciples has to make them see the image of a woman rotting; the Buddha as Prince Siddhartha seeing the harem of women in his palace and becoming disgusted by them so he leaves to become a mendicant; the extra vinaya for nuns; the portrayal of women as an object to be disgusted by as they represent physical impurities (not just sexually, but also referring to menstruation); etc.


    But the core of the teachings are not sexist, no.


    Let this be a lesson to you though, @evolve, just because someone says they're a Buddhist and says one thing doesn't mean that all Buddhists believe the same, or that it's even a "Buddhist" thing.
  • whoever says only females can reach enlightenment clearly knows nothing about true Buddhism.
    thats all I have to say about it.
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    edited April 2012
    person, no they were talking about having to be female.
    I guess the forum members really need to know who the "they" are.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    I would not listen to those "teachers". They don't know what they're talking about.
  • evolveevolve Explorer
    thanks for the answers. a group of Buddhist teachers called "the traveling Buddhists" from what I remember. I participated in a get together type thing they had in my nearby city. I don't know what sources they used to say what they said, but they made it sound subtle or like a mentioning. It wasn't what everything they were lecturing on, and some people probably didn't even catch it. but they were serious about it, and it was confusing because some of the other stuff they said seemed very true and I agreed with it. I just like for everyone to be equal, and for a moment it just seemed they were picking out sources that said that in current times, since things have changed so much, that now it's easier for a female to attain enlightenment rather than a man. it was weird and uncomfortable for me. they might believe it has something to do with the changing chromosomes? ahh I don't know. it's refreshing to know not all Buddhists are like that
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Are you sure they meant only females could become enlightened, or the only way to gain enlightenment is via a female, that is, by using a consort?
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    I can't say I've ever heard that one before... I have heard that women are smarter, but not that we'd have to be women to be enlightened.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2012
    @evolve, let's put this to bed.
    there are stories emanating particularly from Mahayana/Tibetan Buddhism, that relate to
    Tara vowing to always be reborn in female form, and there are other writings which allege to be quoting the Buddha when he states that women being ordained and being permitted to enter the Sangha would shorten the existence of the Dhamma by half.... but many of these so-called quotations are thought to have been added later, and cannot definitively be attributed to the Buddha.

    Many people including expert scholars of Buddhism, doubt their authenticity, as personally, do I.

    The attainment of enlightenment is not dependent on gender, and neither is one gender more likely than the other to achieve it.

    There is a Chinese saying that states that men are 99% secular and 1% spiritual, and that women are 1% secular and 99% spiritual, but that it is as hard for a woman to overcome that final single percentage of secularism, as it is for men to overcome their 99%....

    Whatever the case, let us assure you now: you were misinformed; but kudos to you for carrying your investigations further, and seeking clarification and finding out more about it.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2012
    @federica, do you think it is easier for women to attain enlightenment?
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    edited April 2012
    When I first investigated Buddhist ideas, attended a TB centre and began practice, the generally accepted and quoted idea in wider circles was that only men could achieve enlightenment. I also have never heard any claim of enlightenment being only attainabale by women , as has already been discussed.
    One of the first questions I asked my first teacher about was the gender issue
    He told me that he believed any distinction was related to cultural understandings of gender roles. He also explained to me that the Buddha's only comments about practice and progress in relation to gender were about women ordaining, At the time when the Buddha was first asked about women ordaining it would have been very difficult due to the cultural norms and understandings in the community at that time.

  • Just taking this as a thought problem how could a females mind be of a nature that could not be enlightened?

    A female has a different body and one chromosome different... I have always wondered if females have a different sort of mind, don't know how to architechturally, if you will, analyze.

    Any thought experiment ideas into how a male and female 'mind energies/structure' could be? In chemistry reactivity is always related to structure. So the question arises of how a females mind is structured differently from a males?

    The difference I have heard of is the corpus colossum (spelling) joining the two hemispheres of the brain is different with more mass and connections I guess. The right brain sees the big pictures and is religious and intuitive. The left brain is logical and sees details analytical and so forth.

    I would theorize that females are more integrated and can accomplish communication relationships more easily while integrating with order and activities. The male I imagine can focus on one function at a time. There is a big emphasis on hunting and rising to the top of the power in order to reproduce.

    That last sentence could explain social order with males involved because the society could echo the pattern of more hierarchy bread into males. Both in genes and memes. I am using the word meme loosely to refer to 'art is life and life is art' type of thing.

    Which is not to say that there were never cultures with 'the sacred feminine' but just that the hierarchy of males breading from monkey times even would influence the cultural.

    The shaky conclusion is that there could be a superstition of the power of males to touch God... going all down the line into the Buddhist culture.

    Hi,

    If I was going to pick a gender, I would pick male - but then maybe that is because I am female - lol.

    On the topic of male/female differences and if there is inherent differences, possibly due to anatomical differences, have you had the experience online of interacting with someone and then later being told they were a different gender to what you thought??? I have been told untruths online about gender ( ie, that I am discussing with a male when they are female) - and when tested, my gut instinct has been right thus far - lol.
    I find there is big differences in male and female in terms of communication - do not see how this would impact on practice and progress though.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Sorry but where did you hear that only females can attain enlightenment?
    Maybe females are already enlightened...

    :p
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    Sorry but where did you hear that only females can attain enlightenment?
    Maybe females are already enlightened...

    :p
    Well, depending on who you ask, we are all already enlightened.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    @federica, do you think it is easier for women to attain enlightenment?
    No easier than it is for men.

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    thanks for the answers. a group of Buddhist teachers called "the traveling Buddhists" from what I remember. I participated in a get together type thing they had in my nearby city. I don't know what sources they used to say what they said, but they made it sound subtle or like a mentioning. It wasn't what everything they were lecturing on, and some people probably didn't even catch it. but they were serious about it, and it was confusing because some of the other stuff they said seemed very true and I agreed with it. I just like for everyone to be equal, and for a moment it just seemed they were picking out sources that said that in current times, since things have changed so much, that now it's easier for a female to attain enlightenment rather than a man. it was weird and uncomfortable for me. they might believe it has something to do with the changing chromosomes? ahh I don't know. it's refreshing to know not all Buddhists are like that
    This seems like they may be talking about following a spiritual path. Its generally more socially acceptable for women to be involved in spiritual matters than it is for men. That has nothing to do with capability, only with social norms.
  • evolveevolve Explorer
    I appreciate the responses,and also find it discomforting to hear some people believe only men can realize enlightenment.

    the whole idea of if only the Buddha had been female, he would've realized enlightenment earlier, is just as discomforting :/

    anyway-thanks for clarifications everyone
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I don't know who put those ideas into your head (particularly the latter, which i have hitherto never heard anybody say), but they are both equally rooted in Wrong View.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    The Buddha acknowledged that women are just as capable of achieving spiritual liberation as men. The only question is whether a woman can be a sammasambuddha (a technical term denoting a person who achieves perfect enlightenment without having heard the Dhamma from others, and is able to effectively teach it to others), as there's at least one passage in MN 115 that states this. I agree with Richard Gombrich, however, who argues in What the Buddha Thought that this passage (and any like it) is suspect and probably dates after the Buddha's lifetime. (You can find some of my thoughts on this topic from about a year ago here if you're interested.)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    @Jason - when are you not interesting....? :)
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 2012
    @evolve Would you mind telling us what sect/tradition this group represented, that was saying women are better suited for reaching enlightenment?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    He's already mentioned this.....
    ...... a group of Buddhist teachers called "the traveling Buddhists" from what I remember. I participated in a get together type thing they had in my nearby city. ....... it's refreshing to know not all Buddhists are like that
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    I thought Buddhist teachings weren't sexist :/ but now I'm confused? Do all Buddhist believe this?
    thank you
    Whoever said this has some very serious wrong view. Enlightenment is attainable by both men and women. It is mentioned in the Sutra's and Sutta's that at the beginning of the turning of the Dharma wheel each founding Buddha will appear in the form of a man, This is the founding Buddha but this does not mean that women are any less able to accomplish enlightenment then men. Buddhism is a mind practice not a genital based religion. :)
  • why do some Buddhist teachers say enlightenment is only attainable by a female?
    Because they're not good teachers, and you should avoid them. Anyone who has studied even the most basic Wikipedia entry on Buddhism would know that's utterly ridiculous.
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