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Whats the difference between Understanding/Agreeing with Buddha, and actually being Enlightened?
Ron, I have a question, and please just take it at face value, because I have no problem with what you're doing. But in the above post you say, "If you read my site you'll find that I'm just one guy trying to share what he knows. For free....Nothing to sell."
But on your site, you "sell" meditation classes and instruction at $20 and $70.
I have no problem with that, but it seems as if your statements are...overlapping.
Perhaps you could explain what you see as the difference.
Again, I have no problem with receiving funds for your services.
good point - why do I charge if i'm not selling anything?
The answer is that the "charge" is a suggested donation based on what the average donation is. Most of my students pay very little or nothing because they cannot afford much. And a few benefactor student donate more because they can. The average of that is 70 bucks.
It took me a long time to figure out what to do about a problem that came up when I first started teaching. At first I didn't ask for a donation at all. But my time became swamped, I was turning away a lot of students, and many who contacted me were not very serious. I found myself not having time to spend with my kid and people who wanted my time were asking for ridiculous things (like wanting their futures predicted or their minds read). Then I went to what I consider to be the most senior teachers in the U.S. (who are not monks) and asked for their advice. The result is the suggested donation. It works well because it seems that only very serious students seek teaching and I can use the donations to take time off from work to add to the website and so on. If a serious student contacts me but cannot pay, no problem. They get teaching for free. The point is that they are serious and I'm not wasting my time.
Hope that clarifies it. That's probably more information on the nuts and bolts of teaching meditation than most people get or want. Again, I'm not trying to sell anything - but I want to make the best use of my time. Hence the donation.
OP, it's the difference between intellectually understanding the teachings, vs. apprehending the world and your experience in a totally different way, free of clinging to anything, free of neuroses and expectations, pure experience without interpretation by the mind.
patbb - All my points were centered around Ingram and his writings. That was the whole basis of the discussion. People who can read are free to read my responses, as well as the link I have provided above to an old post you presented on him. I know you are enamored by him/that crew, so rather than suggesting I am some angry follower of another teacher, perhaps you could also recognise it is like telling some Church goer their group is not the supreme/right one they might think it is, and the true word it espouses.
I have spoken my case, including the encouragement to follow genuine teachers/traditions of standing and repute - and anyone with a good teacher and practice under their belt, can learn to differentiate for themself with luck. Others who are open will always be attracted, just as it is with all the schools, teachings, groups, and beliefs available in the whole world.
For those interested in the results of Buddhist practice, there are still many good teachers and schools around, and the encouragement is not to go astray too much, that is all.
"Monks, this holy life is not practiced for the sake of deceiving the public, nor for the sake of gaining their respect, nor for the sake of gains, offerings, and fame; nor for the sake of defeating other sectarians. This holy life is lived for the sake of restraint, abandoning, dispassion, and the cessation of suffering."
Comments
But on your site, you "sell" meditation classes and instruction at $20 and $70.
I have no problem with that, but it seems as if your statements are...overlapping.
Perhaps you could explain what you see as the difference.
Again, I have no problem with receiving funds for your services.
The answer is that the "charge" is a suggested donation based on what the average donation is. Most of my students pay very little or nothing because they cannot afford much. And a few benefactor student donate more because they can. The average of that is 70 bucks.
It took me a long time to figure out what to do about a problem that came up when I first started teaching. At first I didn't ask for a donation at all. But my time became swamped, I was turning away a lot of students, and many who contacted me were not very serious. I found myself not having time to spend with my kid and people who wanted my time were asking for ridiculous things (like wanting their futures predicted or their minds read). Then I went to what I consider to be the most senior teachers in the U.S. (who are not monks) and asked for their advice. The result is the suggested donation. It works well because it seems that only very serious students seek teaching and I can use the donations to take time off from work to add to the website and so on. If a serious student contacts me but cannot pay, no problem. They get teaching for free. The point is that they are serious and I'm not wasting my time.
Hope that clarifies it. That's probably more information on the nuts and bolts of teaching meditation than most people get or want. Again, I'm not trying to sell anything - but I want to make the best use of my time. Hence the donation.
I have spoken my case, including the encouragement to follow genuine teachers/traditions of standing and repute - and anyone with a good teacher and practice under their belt, can learn to differentiate for themself with luck. Others who are open will always be attracted, just as it is with all the schools, teachings, groups, and beliefs available in the whole world.
For those interested in the results of Buddhist practice, there are still many good teachers and schools around, and the encouragement is not to go astray too much, that is all.
Best wishes,
Abu