Monks/Nuns

Bekenze

How do NewBuddhist members here view monks/nuns, or the process of ordaining?

Dakini

I suggest that ordination should be taken more seriously than it is. It should be a calling, not more of a mundane career choice, or an escape. And maybe people should be required to do a trial period of a year, to see if they can hack the discipline. Someone posted about a monastery in Australia that does that. There should be some method for separating the wheat from the chaff.

genkaku

@Dakini -- And likewise, there should be a period during which the applicant has a chance to discover whether monastic surroundings represent wheat or chaff in his/her life. It is natural to imagine that monastic life might be a good thing. But imagination untempered by experience remains a fairy tale, no matter how often anyone recites, "and they all lived happily ever after."

KuJiMieDao

i view Bhikkhu or Bhikkhuni as such:

They are taking a turbo path to enlightenment, for the benefit of all sentient beings. Frankly, such turbo path may not fit everyone due to present/past life afflictions (poor memory, laziness... etc).

I can only speak on experience when I took a lay-person retreat
wake up at 4:00 (3 if it's my turn to sweep and help with morning bell), walk in circle around monastery til 6:00, take sojong(sp?) vow, then morning puja til 9 (if I don't have to help with kitchen), teaching til 12, lunch (no solid food after lunch), walk in circle around monastery again until 2, second teaching afterward, Dharma protector puja from 5, take a break, then evening teaching til 9 or 10, then finally sleep (or more if it's my turn to help out). On the 7th day, I was looking forward to going home. I have the highest respect for those who can do it for weeks or more.

Bhikkhu or Bhikkhuni do these and MORE every single day.

.........or the process of ordaining?

Which school of Buddhism?

andyrobyn

I agree with the sentiment expressed here so far and it seems to me, for us westerners, decisions regarding ordination are best approached by attending long retreats, in whatever tradition is a good fit for the individual for those of us who have the benefit and privilege of a choice of tradition.

driedleaf

Ordination has its roots in different religions and traditions. For Buddhists, I think the word that should be used more often is "renunciation". Ordination is the process in which a person becomes a monk, nun, or religious figure. Renunciation is what a person does or supposed to do when they ordain, and that means to renounce the lay life for a life of religious practice and devotion. So when you decide you want to renounce, then that means you really mean it. It does not mean that you are "just trying it out" kind of thing. Not to say that you can't try it out. I'm just saying you should first know what you're getting into when you do.

vinlyn

I think you have to look at it from 2 perspectives.

First, what is best for the individual.

Second, what is best for the society? In Thailand, if you went by what has been recommended so far, you would be taking away many of the things on which the society has been built.

zenff

Monastic life is an outdated concept. That’s why so few are interested.
It lost its function. Monastic life is only attractive now for people who feel they don’t fit in society.
When you’re a young man and you made a mess of your life you can jump off a cliff, apply for the French Foreign Legion or become a monk.

Monastic life is outdated because we have higher labor productivity, higher prosperity and reliable birth control. Also we have states taking care of people in hospitals or homes for the elderly.
Lay-life, compared to hundreds of years ago, is extremely relaxed.

We can have a nine-to-five job, and stay single. For both men and women this is accepted. You’ll have plenty of time to study and meditate; maybe more than most monks and nuns had in ancient times.
You can find a partner and have sex all you want and not get stuck with a dozen of children.
Some people are retired from work or are jobless and still have income. They can study and meditate all they want.

KuJiMieDao

We can have a nine-to-five job, and stay single. For both men and women this is accepted. You’ll have plenty of time to study and meditate; maybe more than most monks and nuns had in ancient times.
You can find a partner and have sex all you want and not get stuck with a dozen of children.

Sweeping floor is studying dharma and meditating. Interacting with people is studying dharma and meditating. Going to work is studying dharma and meditating.

Monastic life creates a more favourable environment with less influence.

Monastic life is an outdated concept. That’s why so few are interested.
It lost its function. Monastic life is only attractive now for people who feel they don’t fit in society.
When you’re a young man and you made a mess of your life you can jump off a cliff, apply for the French Foreign Legion or become a monk.

Ordained live on "borrowed merit" until they give back to the lay-community in terms of wisdom or some other forms. Now, what'd happen if they simply live on "borrowed merit" without giving back? Hmm... karma works tirelessly and impersonal.

Floating_Abu

I suggest that ordination should be taken more seriously than it is. It should be a calling, not more of a mundane career choice, or an escape. And maybe people should be required to do a trial period of a year, to see if they can hack the discipline. Someone posted about a monastery in Australia that does that. There should be some method for separating the wheat from the chaff.

At all the Thai Forest monasteries I visited and know about the tradition is that it takes time to be an anagarika and then fully robed. Students usually have to live in the community for a time before being accepted for ordination, giving both the community and the individual to better evaluate their choices.

In the Zen monastery I am familiar with, it also takes time before one is accepted as a monk/nun and one does not do that without a period first of living and practicing there etc.

Floating_Abu

"When a person has shaved his hair and beard and put on the ochre robe, that's the symbol of his state as a monk. But it counts only on the external level. Only when he has shaved off the mental tangle — all lower preoccupations — from his heart can you call him a monk on the internal level.

"When a head has been shaved, little creeping insects like lice can't take up residence there. In the same way, when a mind has gained release from its preoccupations and is freed from fabrication, suffering can't take up residence at all. When this becomes your normal state, you can be called a genuine monk."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo