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The Dissolution Of The Universe
ThailandTom
Veteran
After reading reading parts of one of my favourite Buddhist realated books again, The Dalai Lama's Book OOf Awakening, I found someting that I have been looking for. It is related to Buddhist cosmology and how consciousness interacts with the 3 realms of suffering. It reads,
'The Sarvastivadin Abhidharma also discusses the precise waysin which the universe dissolves at the end of each cycle. When the physical universe is destroyed by fire it is destroyed only below the first level of the Form Realm; when it is destroyed by water it dissolves from the second level of the For Realm downwards; when it is destroyed by wind, it is destroyed from the third level of the Form Realm downwards. In Buddhist cosmology, therefore, the evolution of the physical universe is understood in the termms of the four elements of fire, water, wind and earth. In general, we usually add space to the list, making a total of five elements. A complex discussion on the elemental mechanics of dissolution can be found not only in the Abhidharma but also in the Uttarantantra. These explanations seem to be very similar to modern scientific theroies.'
I am interested in the last two sentences, he points out where there is meant to be a detailed discussion about this topic but I have no resources. Can anybody provide a link?
'The Sarvastivadin Abhidharma also discusses the precise waysin which the universe dissolves at the end of each cycle. When the physical universe is destroyed by fire it is destroyed only below the first level of the Form Realm; when it is destroyed by water it dissolves from the second level of the For Realm downwards; when it is destroyed by wind, it is destroyed from the third level of the Form Realm downwards. In Buddhist cosmology, therefore, the evolution of the physical universe is understood in the termms of the four elements of fire, water, wind and earth. In general, we usually add space to the list, making a total of five elements. A complex discussion on the elemental mechanics of dissolution can be found not only in the Abhidharma but also in the Uttarantantra. These explanations seem to be very similar to modern scientific theroies.'
I am interested in the last two sentences, he points out where there is meant to be a detailed discussion about this topic but I have no resources. Can anybody provide a link?
0
Comments
We see the claim that Buddhism and science are compatible being made for over 150 years, and a different Buddhism and different science is being called into play to make that claim over the decades. For Buddhism to be compatible with science over that period of time, as science changes so drastically, should raise some questions in our minds.
You can read more here:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/asia/news/article.asp?parentid=105292
As for the dissolution of the universe, scientific inquiry is always on the move, always updating, while Buddhist cosmological understanding might be considered "stagnant" in comparison. The following comes from the physics forum of Scientific American magazine:
Sometimes people use the word "universe" when they really mean "observable universe." The observable universe does have an edge, which simply lies at the maximum distance that light would have been able to travel since the universe became transparent shortly after the Big Bang. We are at the center of our observable universe, and its edges are expanding outward as time goes on, because in the future light will have had more time to travel to us. An observer billions of light years away from us is at the center of their observable universe, which has different edges than ours. All of these edges are boundaries of the availability of information, not places where anything physically special happens.
Standard cosmological models do not have edges. They come in two flavors, open and closed. The open type has negative spatial curvature and infinite volume. The closed one has positive curvature and finite volume; spatially, it is the three-dimensional analog of a sphere. Neither has an edge. The open type has no edges because it extends to infinite distances. The closed type has no edges because it wraps around on itself. Current observations of the cosmic microwave background's anisotropy show that our universe is very nearly spatially flat (on the cosmological scale). If it is exactly flat, then it is a special case lying between the more general open and closed cases. The flat case has infinite volume and no edges.
Where does this dissolution begin and where does it end?
And please don't say it's metaphorical
When people refer to Buddhism as scientific I think they are referring more to the methodology rather than the conclusions. Buddhism asks us to make observations about our mind and test what we believe and understand against them. There is much in the Buddhist understanding of the external world that has been shown to be wrong and for the most part Buddhists are willing to adopt the new view. When it comes to the inner world it is Buddhism that has proven itself time and again to be accurate.
He also says "There is a dictum in Buddhist philosophy that to uphold a tenet that contradicts reason is to undermine ones own credibility; to contradict empirical evidence is a still greater fallacy."
Instead of some kind of objective world outside of us.
What if the end of our lives is the end of the universe? And there is no universe that we know of apart from our universe?
Just some thoughts.
It's all based on karma.
And as I recall many investigators of the universe, come to subjective claims on the universe. And science is just a collection of subjective claims, which we deem as "objective". Since science is a constantly changing process of differing opinions, the universe cannot be the same or we would all see it one way and only one way.
So the dissolution of the universe is each instant. Arising and falling. But this is looking at the process from a dualistic point of view. If we do not make this or that, or entities then there is only movement. Since there is only movement, nothing is happening. Just an instant of contact, gone, contact, gone. And if that is dropped, every instant is the edge of the universe as consciousness.
Just some theories. Conspiracy theories.
But I do know this. When I have to eat, I go eat. When I have to shit, I go shit.
What else is there to know?
Just fun thoughts, nothing serious.
As to the rest, I acknowledge those are theories
Abu
Abu
well then we asked socrates who are you?
don't know.
he knew that he didn't know.
what knowledge is there really to grasp?
This is going to sound insulting, but it's truly not meant to be so.
If you don't even know yourself...
If you don't know what knowledge there is...
...then why are you posting and why should we consider what you say?
the point isn't to amass a bunch of knowledge or ideas.
the point is to some how convey the path leading from suffering to freedom.
and each idea proposed should be like a self destructive virus. nothing held onto. its medicine for those who are sick. its poison it those that cling.
for instance we can know how to go from suffering to freedom.
but what is the experience of letting go?
at the end of the day, its better off if everyone goes home and practices and examines what we ourselves assert and what others assert.
what is the primary intention? to grasp onto our beliefs? or to maybe open our minds?
that is a personal thing.
Dependent origination is the heart of Lord Buddha's teaching.
Best wishes,
Abu
teachings have a function. when the function is done, then teachings are no longer required.
anyways this might be interesting for you:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/13418/12-link-chain-of-ignorance-and-wisdom#Item_13
I think you overestimate your own understandings very very much.
Don't know mind is just a temporary encouragement for students. It is not the be all and end all.
You have an attachment to emptiness, and you overextend what you have intellectually absorbed as a full understanding of Buddhist practice. I do not think this is so.
To your points -
Master Seung Sahn's words - interim encouragement for the masses, good as an initial encouragement certainly.
don't know - you overplay this too much. Not knowing also knows, did you know that?
what knowledge is there to grasp? The not knowing of Prajna
Well wishes,
Abu
But are you telling me you don't grasp onto your beliefs. I ask because your posts seem quite similar over a long period of time.
Have you penetrated dependent origination? Have you witnessed the folding of the worlds? The breaking of the haze?
If not, then perhaps what you say is unfounded. You think the function is done, and yet if you or I are at best lords of the internet chat forums, what mastery is that. I suspect not much.
Pacifying the suffering is the easy part.
Best wishes,
Abu
Feel free to start another thread if the moderators here do not split it for you.
I have nothing to convince you of, but I will respond to public comments as they are on record, especially if I disagree
Best wishes,
Abu
Within and without we are each a piece of the puzzle and together we expand the borders of the big picture.
Within and without we are each a piece of the puzzle and together we expand the borders of the big picture.
woohoo that's my next nut to crack!!!