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Buddhism in the Military
bushinoki
Veteran
This has been something of a sticking point between myself and a few others on this forum. I am enlisted in the US Army, in a combat MOS. I find I'm not the only Buddhist in the military. I stopped attending the services available after a few weeks, but continued to practice meditation while I was there, but I discovered that there were other practicing Buddhists in Combat MOS. It does seem contradictory on the surface that a supposedly peaceful religion is practiced by those who are trained to kill. However, it is the manner in how we fight a war that makes all the difference.
It is to protect the freedoms that I enjoy as a citizen of a democratic republic that I fight for. Among those freedoms is the right to free excercise of religion. Despite the unpopularity of this war, the enemy we fight would take that freedom from us if able. I consider it to be a necessary evil that we fight.
Not all of us are meant to fight, though. Those of us who aren't meant to fight are meant to do other things, to help build peace. One of the reasons this war is being fought is the disparity of wealth and freedom in the world. Fanatics and greedy, unscrupulous men seize on this to create new generations of fanatics willing to die for their god, thus perpetuating the cycle. Those who don't fight should be working to alleviate the cycle of poverty that helps create the fanatics who perpetuate unnecessary conflicts.
There is nothing perfect about this war. Soldiers and innocent people die every day now because of the conflict. A nation is being occupied, and is unable to put its wealth to good use because of the daily fighting. Some of us must fight in the here and now to keep this conflict in check, but others should be doing something to help those who would be recruited to fight against us.
It is to protect the freedoms that I enjoy as a citizen of a democratic republic that I fight for. Among those freedoms is the right to free excercise of religion. Despite the unpopularity of this war, the enemy we fight would take that freedom from us if able. I consider it to be a necessary evil that we fight.
Not all of us are meant to fight, though. Those of us who aren't meant to fight are meant to do other things, to help build peace. One of the reasons this war is being fought is the disparity of wealth and freedom in the world. Fanatics and greedy, unscrupulous men seize on this to create new generations of fanatics willing to die for their god, thus perpetuating the cycle. Those who don't fight should be working to alleviate the cycle of poverty that helps create the fanatics who perpetuate unnecessary conflicts.
There is nothing perfect about this war. Soldiers and innocent people die every day now because of the conflict. A nation is being occupied, and is unable to put its wealth to good use because of the daily fighting. Some of us must fight in the here and now to keep this conflict in check, but others should be doing something to help those who would be recruited to fight against us.
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Comments
I hate war, per se.... But I can fully grasp the point.....
Thank you for that, Bushi....
Really good to see you amongst us....
While I can understand your motives behind defending military action I would like to say that I find the idea of 'defence' a somewhat cyclic debate. It's an 'us' and 'them' mentality that I feel perpetuates violence and suffering in this world and does not bring an end to it.
I will therefore pont you to my signature picture and say this:
Peacefulness is invincible in it's unmovable nature.
A deep bow to you and all.
Dave
Very few of us are to the point of doing what the monk in the picture did to protest war. He died to protest the war in Vietnam I think. The American combat soldiers die the same. Both are killing a human. Both are sacrificing themselves for an ideal.
The rape of Tibet and the killing fields of Cambodia under Pol Pot (sp?) killed many Buddhists. How to stop such a thing from happening through peaceful sacrifice is beyond me.
I live in a country with 5% of the worlds population and that consumes over 22% of the worlds resources. This is how the USA contributes to war more than anything. Other "first world" countries contribute the same way. Very few of us are willing to give up their standard of living and give all but the basic needs away to diminish the disparity. The computer i use cost than some persons yearly income. I live just over the standard of poverty in this country but am fat and wealthy compared to most of this world. The poor of this world have no problem seeing the "us and them."
Russell
I almost always touch a nerve when I discuss this topic with anyone and for that I apologise.
I'm merely approaching the problem of conflict and war from a perspective gain through deep meditation practise and study of sutras and commentaries. I am here in this life to attempt to help other sentient beings lead more reflective and peaceful lives and evertually break the bonds of samsara. The only way I can truley do this is by walking the path myself and sharing, when it is warrented, what I learn.
In recent months I've been very quiet here on Newbuddhist only ever commenting when I am sure what I have to say can help someone somewhere.
It is with this attitude that I commented in this thread.
Perhaps I was too vague in reference to my quote and signature picture. What I meant to portray was that although it seems as though peaceful people get trod upon during conflict (seen in the monk's selfless act of demonstration against the Vietnam war) the opposite is actually true. As the rapers and pillagers hustle and bustle from one village to the next they are sowing the seeds of their own suffering and endless rebirth.
To the conditioned mind it seems as thought these people are crazy - just sitting there and being killed without giving up any fight for their own lives - indeed to mortals it is clear who has 'won' the battle. The clear teachings of the Tahtagata on karma, however, make it clear that either acts (the act of non-violence and violence) have many effects for both parties.
Yes many died in Tibet. Yes many died in Cambodia. How many Westerners would happily support the peaceful protest of the Tibetan people in the wake of the Dalai Lama's past decisions regarding that conflict?
I guess if I ever had a point it would be that wars and conflicts have continued for thousands of years, one needs only a basic knowledge of history to know that someone somewhere is seeking to end their suffering by fighting. Are we ever to end such a cycle of violence if we continue to participate?
A deep bow to all
壟の泉
Take care of yourself, and be at peace.
Narda
This is a very interesting thread.
I myself... I don't like the whole idea of a military. It's like the old slogans you see: War for Peace? That's like screwing for virginity.
But, when you look upon the atrocities of Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot - these people have no sense, care or compassion for their fellow man. So then... how does peacefully protesting save the millions of innocent victims who were killed? The men, women, children and babies that were ruthlessly butchered during this and other time periods. The families that were torn apart and destroyed.
What is really odd is that I believe the US supported or allowed this type of nonsense to continue for a very long time. Same with the United Nations with the Serb/Croat genocide.
I believe the military is of use because there are people out there that are evil. And when no one makes them tow the line, they will continue to do evil things against other humans. Unfortunately, with the US, we usually decide to pick the wrong side anymore - or we wait around until thousands die... unless someone touches our oil friends... then we're all over them like stink on a monkey.
Very sad, interesting and thought provoking thread.
-bf
I apologize that my post appeared to be argumentative. I gain much through your postings.
My main points were
1. How to express compassion to those suffering violent oppression and help deliver them through peaceful means is beyond my understanding.
(I am very much still a conditioned western mind.)
2. As individuals we can do more to alleviate suffering and the causes of violence through giving of our excess than any other way I can think of.
3. Warriors like Bushinoki sacrifice themselves, thier peace of mind because of the horrors they see and the peace of being of home with thier family so others (not family or freinds but strangers) may be free from suffering. "I will die for you if necessary". His self sacrifice moves and shames me. As does the monk in your signature.
Peace
Russell
If anyone's interested, His Holiness the Dalai Lama has spent the better part of his life studying peace and war and has some pertinent insights into the subject.
I posted this because I went through alot in 14 weeks, and I did have some time to think and meditate on what I was doing and why. It is as mentioned above, I'm trying to preserve the peace and safety of the family I love while helping to improve the lives of those oppressed in other nations. Might for right. The US, as the leading superppower in todays world has an obligation to do certain things to help other nations grow. That has in recent history been taken too far, but the priniple is there. Perhaps someday humanity will be so fortunate as to have a change in which war is no longer acceptable and we live together peacefully, so in the long run, that is also something I fight for. In the meantime, I ask each of you to continue and try to improve your part of the world, knowing that it helps down the road.
cheers.
Xrayman
It is a sad fact of today's world that warfare seems to be a necessary evil to ensure security for those who desire peace, and I admire those who have the courage to to this. It's very true that no-one hates war more than a soldier- they are the people who have to see humanity at it's most cruel and savage, and hold a mirror up to it for the rest of us to see. I, myself, served in my country's reserve forces during the first Gulf War, and I consider myself very lucky indeed that the conflict drew to a close before my call-up was processed. (My unit was on 48-hour standby when Desert Storm ended.)
While I have no desire to be a part of military circles anymore, I will be forever grateful to the military for providing me with the strength of character to deal with some very tragic personal events soon after I left, and I will always be in the debt of those who are willing to sacrifice their tomorrows for me to enjoy my todays.
He's been a member for a while now...But you're right...it's been too long....
Wouldn't it be far more majestic and worthy of respect if all these modern, High-Tech advanced weapons suddenly all fell into disuse, and Soldiers were obliged to resort to the Warrior-Mode of hand-to-hand combat -? I'm not saying War is any better or more commendable that way, but I'd love to see Bush and Blair take on the likes of Bin Laden and Chirac in a ring....With nothing but an epée or a rapier, instead of hiding behind their desks spouting cruddy platitudes in their expensive suits.........
I think there are some beneficial and advantageous aspects of going through Military training....
I think one of the solutions to delinquency, hooliganism and youth intransigence (!) would be to bring back National Service, world-wide - !! Boot camps are awful popular right now - !!
Padawan, Sorry to hear you had personal Issues and tragedies.... Glad to know you had the strength and resolve to come through them.
america is more dictatorship.. your president has absolute power.. sure for 4 years but he is absolute, and your freedom is in your mind.. i see little freedom anywhere.. and i just don't understand why america is sooo 'free' compared to other countires.. sure you can't be held accountable or put in jail for nothing.. but so what... you still following laws..in reality theres little different.. as i've said in a previous post .. In america the KKK can preach all it wants openly in the streets as long as it dont threaten (literally) this is not a good thing and its because of american 'freedom'
and you aren't protecting anyone.. America's politics and attacks on other countrys has brought it to this.. America is a very bloodthirsty country warwise, seems to go to war every few years.. for very few reasons..
I just don't agree with american politics and i think they have a huge effect on the rest of world, bullying, destroying, ruining other peoples lifes by way of militry opression and i could never be part of anything like that...
protecting your country is like fighting the Nazi's.. but invading countires only to steal their resources, murder and abuse their citizens and make things worse than Old Saddam .. who ran the country better than it is now.. caused less death than the american/british army have
may be one sided.. but i see very little improvement that the american's have done in ages through war...
the taliban is now very strong in position because democracy is just not effective in afghanistan.. and the administration is awful.. money isn't going where it should and corruption is happening a lot of the time.. there were people in the taliban working for free.. now they get £100,000 for doing practically nothing
apart from causing more xenophobia and death in the world the military does little.. peace and co-operation are the path forward needed in USA not more conscription. Make friends with countries who hate you and help make a bond between peoples..
As for serving in the militry i dont understand how people can fire shards of metal through each other ... its just wrong..
Yea a lot ppl find 1v1 combat to be romantic but its not in real life..
Imagine you have a mace and a shield and the other guy has teh same..
You dont win in 1 hit.. you hack the other guy down it pure desperation and blood,broken bones.. its not clean or anything..and these were heavy weapons... and heavy armour they wore which would have been horrible just fighting in..
war can destroy soldiers mind's ..
armies should be the last resort not the first
Things are not as they seem for any of us:
Who once was heedless,
but later is not,
brightens the world
like the moon set free from a cloud.
His evil-done deed
is replaced with skillfulness:
he brightens the world
like the moon set free from a cloud.
Aren't each of us Angulimala--we all must kill for our own lives to continue?
i personally hate ignorance but i have no choice but to accept it.. way i see it one day humans will see things from my view eventually.. be it 1000 years or so .. people will see the world from reason not religion or anything else..
I was going to respond to you using your writing style but won't.
These things you wrote I agree with:
war can destroy soldiers mind's ..
armies should be the last resort not the first
i just don't understand
I can't follow how your posts concerning america's politics apply. If you mentioned the Islamic extremists slaughtering thousands of peaceful moslems in Africa, ethnic cleansing in eastern europe as well as your distaste for American miltary adventures, it would be more balanced.
America has no conscription. It has an all voluntary military.
I paraphrase a quote that I wish I could remember better- citizens sleep peacebly because
hard men stand ready to defend them.
Perhaps if you traveled to North Korea or talked with others who have lived in similar regimes ( there are millions in europe) you would have a different handle on what freedom means.
Ignorance is not the opposite of reason. The greek philosophers would be deemed ignorant in modern society but thier reasoning is still studied.
I know I am being defensive. It is some what because i feel to be a minority at times. I am an American patriot. I agree with whomever said democracy is the worse form of government except for all the others the world has tried.
Thank you for all you do for the U.S.!
Was it Churchill maybe?
for fear it may incriminate me, and cause undue stress for me and others, thanks.
Palzang
Also the slogan of the Air Force Security Service when I was in it (now the Electronic Security Command).
Palzang
It was Churchill. And here's a good quote from James Madison:
The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse.
Palzang
Lord Acton
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke
If this means that 'Good Men (and women)' pick up their arms and defend against Evil, then this is something, regardless of what we think, believe or desire, that we all have to accept...
Until Mankind is convinced by the Better Way, this is all we've got.
mm If you watched Michael Moore's farenheit 9/11 you shoudl know the kinda stuff they do to recruit people, false promises and such
i don't agree with ethnic cleansing and so forth.. or american crusades but Iraq was in better condition before the war and they got better resources and more food/water/money before all of this
And the militry sets up perimeters and literally shoots everything that moves.. its terrible.. in farenheit 9/11 some americans are listening to rock music and shooting kids/mothers you name it... Of course some countries are better without dictators but.. democracy and puppet rulers don't really help.. and although some people may feel liberated and others may hate it.. these regimes aren't as much of a problem as is made out to be in most cases..
In vietnam the main reason i see for the war was because it was a communist country and america was scared that commies were going to gang up on them..
and again america doesnt defend people .. unless they have invaded somewhere and then are acting 'self defence' by mowing terrorists down.. and by the way theses terrorists (sometimes freedom fighters) are small splinter groups of muslims they are not the mainstream
I am not qualified to discuss life in Iraq, either before or after the US 'intervention', but I suspect that the amount of food available prior to our presence meant little to the mothers and wives of the 'missing'....husbands and children that dissappeared under S. Hussein and are now being found in mass graves by our military and humanitarian workers.
If it matters, I validate your opinion. It is sincere.
Nothin'!
Say it again...
::
Ahem...
...
.... I'm a litttle nervous...
ahem...
"Good Gawd, y'all!"
-bf
just like witches at black masses.
Evil minds that plot destruction,
sorcerers of death's construction.
In the fields the bodies burning,
as the war machine keeps turning.
Death and hatred to mankind,
poisoning their brainwashed minds.
Oh lord, yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away.
They only started the war.
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah.
Time will tell on their power minds,
making war just for fun.
Treating people just like pawns in chess,
wait till their judgement day comes, yeah.
Now in darkness world stops turning,
ashes where the bodies burning.
No more War Pigs have the power,
Hand of God has struck the hour.
Day of judgement, God is calling,
on their knees the war pigs crawling.
Begging mercies for their sins,
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings.
Oh lord, yeah!
--Black Sabbath, War Pigs
-bf
Lo, its all so true,
They told me, dont go walkin slow
cause devils on the loose.
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Woa, dont look back to see.
Thought I heard a rumblin
Callin to my name,
Two hundred million guns are loaded
Satan cries, take aim!
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Woa, dont look back to see.
Over on the mountain
Thunder magic spoke,
Let the people know my wisdom,
Fill the land with smoke.
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Better run through the jungle,
Woa, dont look back to see.
-- Credence Clearwater Revival
But, as Buddhists faced with another being who sees their path as in keeping with the wrathful aspect....what should be our compassionate response?
Yes, I'm sure the sane ones say that.
My compassionate response: Killing can never be justified. Wake up!
::
Bushinoki, you sound like a reasonable person. I sincerely hope you find peace in your own way. I hope you never fire a shot in anger.
::
If I may, here are some of my personal thoughts on the topic.
We may all have our opinions on what is best for the world, but if we trust in the belief that the Buddha really is 'worthy and rightly self-awakened, consummate in knowledge & conduct, well-gone, an expert with regard to the world, unexcelled as a trainer for those people fit to be tamed, the teacher of divine & human beings, awakened, blessed', then we should really do our best to listen to him. Whether we may approve or not, a person's career choice is their own kamma. We do not have to bear the weight of their actions unless we pick them up. As the Buddha advised his followers to frequently contemplate in the Upajjhatthana Sutta (AN V.57):
The point is, the Buddha taught his followers to be responsible for their own actions. If a person chooses to pursue a career in the military, then that is something they have to deal with. It is not our place to judge them, as if our opinions are the universal scales of what is considered "right" or "wrong". However, lets us also not forget that in a Buddhist context, a career in the military is not considered Samma-ajivo (Right Livelihood). If one truly wishes to live by the Dhamma, then they must carefully consider his teachings on the subject. In the Vanijja Sutta (An V.177), the Buddha gives five kinds of wrong livelihood for lay followers:
When it comes to our practice, we have to do our best to judge what is the most skillful use of our time, effort, skills, and resources. Sometimes, we may see a career in the military as being a skillful use of all these things and more. We may have only the best of intentions behind such a choice, and we honestly believe that we are making the right decision. The only problem is that these choices are often made from a mind that is influenced by greed, hatred, and delusion. What we perceive as being a skillful choice is not always going to actually be a skillful choice. So, no matter what we do, we must always be aware of the consequences.
After all, it is in this way that we live, we learn, and we grow.
Sincerely,
Jason
I regret my hasty condemnation of an honorable soldier.
with love,
Wes.
From here.
The very reason that politics, nasty business in its own right, gets even nastier when religion gets involved is that we are dealing with such intrinsic foundations of who we are. It goes to the degree that more egotistic and egocentric people can't accept being "not wrong", they must be "right". That is the type of people who flew planes into buildings and blew up busses, and have been engaging in such acts since the dawn of human history.
Yet the real reasons that we, humans everywhere, must bring our religious beliefs into political play, is that when we don't, others decide what we believe and how we believe it. That is not how I wish to live my life. I don't believe that prayer should not be forced upon people who are in a public setting they are forced to be in. Thus, no prayer in a Public Classroom. However, I am strongly against one or two people obstructing the great majority of people from praying before an event that they choose to be at, ie a football game.
Ultimately, that is what American Freedoms are about. It is charged that America is almost totalitarian under Pres. Bush. But what about the fact that even with the Patriot Act, he still can't just drag someone off for just disagreeing with him. We can still attend the religious services of our choice. Most Americans can still own a firearm with little to no beaurocratic involvement. And the Federal Judiciary is howling to see that those incarcerated at Gitmo get the trial they are guaranteed under the US constituion, even though most of them aren't even US citizens, meaning that we still have the legal rights that we have been promised.
It is also charged that the US Armed Forces Recruiting is based upon lies. I've known individual recruiters to lie in the past, but in the last two weeks at my local recruiting station, the opposite has been true. They don't tell people not to join, but they have been very forthright about what to expect if they join, especially the part about going to Iraq or Afghanistan.
Also, Michael Moore rates about the same as Bill Clinton, The New York Post, the National Enquirer, The Humanist, and Satan (ie "deciever", the original meaning) with me. I couldn't even stand the idea of sitting through his so called documentary, especially when I found out who he really was. Moore protesting the RNC in NY City was one thing, but these supposed "documentaries" of his are outright treason and do more harm than all the IEDs that have detonated in Iraq put together. If it weren't for lunatics like him, this war would have been long finished, as the insurgency wouldn't have had the main weapon they fight with, American Politics.
I think some of the comments regarding "the US being a totalitarian government", "recruiters lying", and "Fahr 9/11 being an unbiased view of how things really are" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
I wouldn't say that M. Moore's movie was outright treason - because he has a right to free speech - but we must realize it's 1) a movie 2) one person's perception 3) one person's bias.
There are ills all over the world that we are dealing with and I don't believe they can be solved by some of the suggestions provided in this thread.
-bf
not to mention it is true that the usa militry has known his wear abouts on several occasions and done nothing, not to mention allowing terrorist training camps to go unhindered for long periods of time before they actually shut them down.
Treason.. mm nooo i think its wrong to be patriotic, thats my view. You get a distorted weird idea that you are doing somethign for a country... i mean its a chunk of land with people on it just like everywhere else.. countries,flags,nations are meaningless. I just don't understand it.. being proud of what? its your home but its no different to someone elses..
you don't dirty your own doorstep so why should you dirty someone elses
michael moore is anti -war and doesnt agree with the politic stance of bush.. and i dont think it causes much harm.. the war is not stopping due to xenophobia.. and hatred,racism, religious fanatics and whatever other item you wanna throw in there..
and religion.. in politics doesnt fit for me either, im fine with buddhism but christians in government don't seem to even follow the 10 commandments.. and justify all they do by throwing the word 'God' in there... and declare war, sending others to do the fighting for them.
not to mention bush's 'evil doer's ' i mean seriously .. evil doers? not is it just poor mindfulness , its ridiculous language and poor speech.. bushy is the cause of much anti-muslim stuff and is refered to
"America's Hitler"
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_lonna_go_060526_our_socialized_corpo.htm
Seriously though, while I respect Bushinoki and don't condemn at all his choice to be in the military, I just have to say, dude, you've really been brainwashed by all the propaganda they've been spewing out! Take a breath and step back and look at the big picture. We're not really the good guys in Iraq (not that there are any). Cheney and his cronies are getting fat and rich off the blood of our brothers while lying through their teeth. If that's what you want to support, go for it, but as a veteran and a Buddhist I am sickened and disgusted by what the Bush administration has done to our country, not to mention Iraq.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest...
Palzang