Lack of Motivation for the world because of the path...

Viriya

Im finding it harder to buy into the world and all its trappings the more i meditate, and its a little alarming as i still need to function in the world and provide for myself and those close to me, but my desire to be successful in this is not as strong as it would have been if i still saw a point to it all, but now as i am seeing more and more how essences-less and fundamentally meaningless the games of the world are im inclining away from it all. I know this is the perfect platform to renounce and let go completely of it all, but i want to have a family and do all that, but to be successful at that you have to play all the games...maybe iv gotta look a bit closer at what i want...or maybe you dont have to play all the games....instead use your efforts to provide for those around you as an opportunity to increase your parami??? thoughts people?

RichardH

...maybe iv gotta look a bit closer at what i want...

That sounds about right. Letting go of the world can mean very different things. Seeing the world as "a meaningless game" is a particular head-space. .. a state of mind... another condition to see and let go of. When "sitting" is it meaningless or meaningful? .. it just is.

seeker242

I don't think one need to "play games" in order to be successful. But it depends on what your definition of "successful" means. For some people it means getting power or lots of money, etc. In other words successful mean more things for me, more benefit for me, for myself. I find that the definition of successful often changes for one who is walking the path. It changes from "just for myself" to "for us" or "for everyone around me" or even "for others". It makes you less selfish. Less selfish is always a good thing IMO. However, even non-selfish people don't need to play games to have a family or a good job, etc.

PrairieGhost

Viriya

but to be successful at that you have to play all the games

Yeah. You can't do that now.

You have to see this through. It's worth it.

genkaku

@Viriya -- No one longing for heaven ever got there by sidestepping hell.

federica

Remember you do not live in isolation.
You live amongst others and have a duty, for them, to make Right Effort, be it at work, be it at home, be it during leisure time.
Effort entails living mindfully in the company of others and conjoining to create a smooth ride.
They are as dependent on you to join in, as the wheel is to have 8 spokes.

misecmisc1

don't renounce the world by leaving the world and going to a secluded place, but rather try to renounce the world by living in the world.

don't try to fulfill your sensual desires.

try to find the middle way.

Sile

Might be worth thinking that it's not the specific games that matter so much, but the compassion or wisdom you can hopefully exercise, increase, and share while playing them. Something akin to pursuing a sport for the sheer physical exercise of it, and not because you are hung up on that particular sport.

Diseria

I have to work to support me & my son. Instead of getting lost in how pointless it is to shuffle papers (I'm a school secretary), I look at the job as a matter of Discipline. I don't *want* to get up @ 5am.. but I do the best I can Monday-Friday, 7am to 4-4:30pm. I earn my paycheck, & I take care of business.

I practice Mindfulness while working. I practice Compassion with the angry kids on time-out. I look forward to the silence of my lunch hour! Lol

You do what you have to. HOW you do it... that's up to you.

how

One of my most succesful retreats was a mind numbing, paper shuffling, spec job.
It was years of practise, mindfully relaxing completely into the now, regardless of what I formally thought was meaningful or not.
I guess my point is that the externals do not have to be a limit to your practise and it's immaculacy.

ozen

Im finding it harder to buy into the world and all its trappings the more i meditate, and its a little alarming as i still need to function in the world and provide for myself and those close to me, but my desire to be successful in this is not as strong as it would have been if i still saw a point to it all, but now as i am seeing more and more how essences-less and fundamentally meaningless the games of the world are im inclining away from it all. I know this is the perfect platform to renounce and let go completely of it all, but i want to have a family and do all that, but to be successful at that you have to play all the games...maybe iv gotta look a bit closer at what i want...or maybe you dont have to play all the games....instead use your efforts to provide for those around you as an opportunity to increase your parami??? thoughts people?

I know what you mean, Viriya, or at least this sounds very familiar. I have no answer though.

It's liberating to lose the desire to be SUCCESSFUL and all that, but at the same time we still have to fit into a word where success is so highly valued.

driedleaf

There is really nothing to fear. Being more wise will not make you less successful. People find the truth at different stages of their life. Perhaps it is just the time where many changes are closing in. If that is the case then we should try to cultivate more wisdom. How else would we deal with the different outcomes of these changes?

DairyLama

...or maybe you dont have to play all the games....

That's an important realisation.

SattvaPaul

I'm not sure if this is the same thing @Viriya is asking about, but I would be interested what people have to say about overcoming apathy? The kind of "nothing really matters" feeling?

Jeffrey

SattvaPaul, apathy is the negative side of equinimity and is overcome by it's circular friend kindness. The circle is the four aprimanas or limitless qualities: kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, equinimity.

SeaOfTranquility

As Right View is developed over time, we see the illusion of self and the problems it has brought. Success/failure, win/loose. These are simply projections of an attachment to ego, the imagination of ourselves as something separate and special. As false concepts of separation fade away they are naturally replaced with compassion and equanimity. You understand everyone is suffering from self delusion. Even though most are not aware.

So you don't stop playing the game, you just stop obsessing about winning the game. Then it becomes fun.

Don't spin off into the hopeless despair of nihilism. That is not where this path leads.



Best Wishes

tikaL2o6

I think apathy can result when one's intention (second factor of the eightfold path) is not balanced out and not in tune - especially when one has cultivated a strong sense of renunciation for the play things of the world, but still harbors a sense of resentment towards it. The renunciation is a good thing, in fact it is rare in this world to find those disillusioned with it, but the ill will and cruelty, however subtle, can drag down the renunciation, really make it heavy and dreary, and thus result in a kind of apathetic intention, which is not sufficient if one wishes to cultivate the eightfold path correctly. The solution: let to of the ill will.

Invincible_summer

I think The Myth of Sisyphus is pretty relevant to this topic.

The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor...

At that subtle moment when man glances backward over his life, Sisyphus returning toward his rock, in that slight pivoting he contemplates that series of unrelated actions which become his fate, created by him, combined under his memory's eye and soon sealed by his death. Thus, convinced of the wholly human origin of all that is human, a blind man eager to see who knows that the night has no end, he is still on the go. The rock is still rolling.

I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

DairyLama

So you don't stop playing the game, you just stop obsessing about winning the game. Then it becomes fun.

But isn't there a need for some discernment? Not all games are worth playing, and we have a choice.

SeaOfTranquility

@porpoise said: "But isn't there a need for some discernment? Not all games are worth playing, and we have a choice."


For sure.

But at the same time you play the cards you are dealt. With the motivation to cause less harm you do what you can to help.

I think the original OP has come to realize the truth of the 1st Noble Truth. Life does suck (or so it would seam.)

The thing is is that this is just the beginning. There are 3 other truths.

Dakini

You can dwell in the world but not be attached to it. You go through the motions of holding down a job because that's what you need to do to survive. But your ego doesn't need to get wrapped up in it. Or you can look for "right livelihood", a job that speaks to you, that allows you to help people or make a difference in the world. That would address the apathy issue.

All what games? There are games?

DairyLama

There are games?

Career progression is often a game ( for example ).