the art of whining

genkaku

If I had to guess, I think I would guess that no one ever outgrows whining in one form or another. True, in social situations you can sometimes escape by saying diplomatic things like, "Please excuse me now, I have to go and rearrange my sock drawer," but the whining within is never quite that easy. There are situations that arise and, if you're anything like me, you can feel your heels digging in: "Why do I have to do that? Why doesn't someone else do it? Why am I always the patsy? Ain't it awful?"

In one sense, it's easy to point out the realm of whine (and perhaps chuckle ruefully), but in another sense it is hard -- or is that 'impossible?' -- to escape. Of course I can always gussy it up: My whining is 'thoughtful reflection' whereas your whining is the stuff that sends me to the sock drawer.

Whining means, roughly, that things ought to be different, ought to be better, ought to be ... whatever I think they should be. Here I am hip deep in delusion ... and I really need to work on my 'enlightenment' skills. Here I am in a dead-end job ... and really my skills are better than that. Etc. The world is really in terrible shape and, well ... I can whine with the best of them. There are so many adroit forms of whining that I can sit here now, typing ... and whine about whining.

What is anyone else's take on this topic? The best I can see, whining is just something to keep an eye on. Trying to shut it down just makes it stronger or more wily or wreathes it in better camouflage. Just watch ... it's the best I can think of because keeping an eye on things gives them the opportunity to disappear ....

Until next time.

What's your thought?

PS. Mods ... I was unsure if this topic qualified as something for 'beginners' or for 'advanced' thinkers or deserved a berth in the rolly-polly 'banter' department. Sorry if you think it misplaced.

RichardH

Is whining the same as getting cranky?

genkaku

Is whining the same as getting cranky?

@RichardH -- This is the kind of question I would refer to the Jesuits and other dissectors of profound subtlety. On a guess, I would say that no reputable whine exists without a solid infusion of crankiness. But whether all crankiness is therefore whining ... well, I'll leave that up to you.

how

Whining does say that there is a problem but the whine is all about mmeeeee.
There is a lack of acceptance for what is.
That lack of acceptance has been peculating just below the surface for a while.
Their focus is just on how it effects them.
You are really listening to someones fear of loss.

Most of the time I focus past the whine to the acknowledgement of that feared loss so they can feel that they've been heard.
If it becomes repetitive or I start feeling like a convenient wastepaper basket then I'll start verbally exploring the veracity of their concerns against the wider picture.

Note.. Choose the last strategy if you only need imaginary internet friends.

zenff

We can have legitimate objections and express them.
The observation that the state of things is suboptimal, usually is correct.
A group of people working together needs the negative element; the black hat; that one person who’s always looking for the flaws in the plan.

“Whining” is a label we shouldn’t throw around too easily.

zenff

Now that Yin and Yang are on the agenda; whining is Yin.
Whining is part of the cycle. When we try to be Yang or cheerful and optimistic all day, we will be moving away from reality and our artificial attitude will at some point collapse into a Yin-depression.

Okay it’s a quarter past six in the morning here. And this kind of nonsense is what I can come up with before breakfast.
Have a nice day.

Zero

Whining does say that there is a problem but the whine is all about mmeeeee.
There is a lack of acceptance for what is.

:thumbsup:

tmottes

When I notice that I am whining to myself about something, that is when I kick it into high gear and relly try to get absorbed into the activity I am fighting against (provided it is skillful). For instance, my partner acquires all these animals and plants; while he does take some care of them, most of the work falls to me. At first I would bitch and complain. Then I realized either I needed to get rid of them or take care of them. So I do the tasks very mindfully. This really seems to shut down the whining. I guess when you stop seeing yourself as a victim, the world seems to be a very different place.

Tosh

I think until I'm Enlightened, there is a place for having a whine. I just whined to my A.A. group recently (they call whiners like me 'Bleading Deacons'). I've been in A.A. for over 3 years and 3 months (sober 3 years; I had a bit of an experiment at 3 months sober; just to check out that I was really an alcoholic) and out of that time I've been our groups secretary for one-and-a-half years.

I felt the group was taking advantage of my kind nature, and I've been pulling more than my fair share of the weight. At one stage I was making coffee for two groups, doing the literature for a group, also the group service representative (which means I have to travel some distance to another 'higher echelon of A.A.' every three months), I'm also the treasurer too; and I have to chair a weekly meeting and find shares for it. On top of that, for every meeting, I pick up two guys that haven't got transport and drop them off after too.

Alcoholics are not allowed to have resentments, according to A.A. literature - so I whined big style.

It had a positive result; I've reduced my A.A. commitment to a reasonable level and other people are doing service that should be good for them, at a spiritual level.

There is definitely a place for whining, IME.

how

Standing up for what is right, (making room for others to participate while correcting a AA work imbalance) is not whining.
Congrat's on the 3 year, 3 month sobriety.
It sounds like a Tibetan monks retreat.

SattvaPaul

I have uneasy feeling that genkaku is referring to some things that have been cropping up recently on the forum. Maybe whining is part of it, but mostly it's a genuine question, asking for help with this or that. That's what the forum is for, in part. Telling people to just get on with it is helpful sometimes but not always appropriate. Reminds me of a story I've heard about someone complaining to a teacher about serious pain in the knees while sitting and being told basically "it's your problem". I don't think the person went back.

Just a thought (whine).

Whining can be a really bad habit nonetheless.

genkaku

@sattvapaul -- OK, my perception was mistaken. Nobody whines. Everyone has a right to air whatever they like.

And too, the conversation puts me in mind of a time when I was in agonizing pain during a sesshin or Zen retreat. My knees were k-i-l-l-i-n-g me. Everyone else in the room was sitting straight and still and so was I ... but I was getting creamed. My mind was awash: "I can't do this! This is too painful! No one can be feeling what I am feeling and survive! This is too much! I just can't do this!" On and on it went ... some very serious complaining/whining/whatever. Until ... towards the end of one sitting ... it occurred to me that at the same time I was yowling like a mountain cat that I couldn't do it, couldn't sit still, couldn't take the pain, just couldn't ... at the same time I was complaining I couldn't do it ... I was, in fact doing what I said I couldn't do.

AMH

I mostly think of kids since I work with them all day. There is a point where the sound of a whiney voice is just too much. And i do not encourage getting needs met with that voice. So yesterday I told a child he had used up his whines for the day. He had asked me the same question 3 times and the answer every time was not now, but I would tell him and the group when.

So he stopped that voice with me, and then went to another teacher to ask if she could ask me the same thing. At that point he lost 2 minutes of free computer time and we talked about other ways to get his needs met, and how to manage when it was not going his way.

i think adult whines are very close to resentment. And resentment tells me important information like @tosh. I have felt that resentment and realized it was my responsibility to change the situation. Others were not responsible for that, but resentment or the internal whine was not any different than any other emotion. I sat with it like you can sit with any other emotion, and you either have it pass or you see that a change is needed.

RichardH

Is whining the same as getting cranky?

@RichardH -- This is the kind of question I would refer to the Jesuits and other dissectors of profound subtlety. On a guess, I would say that no reputable whine exists without a solid infusion of crankiness. But whether all crankiness is therefore whining ... well, I'll leave that up to you.

I like to think that being a cranky cuss is just crazy wisdom. That's it, crazy wisdom.
....kinda inscrutable.

Zayl

I don't like the particular shade of yellow used on this website. Use a better one. neener neener.

SattvaPaul

@sattvapaul -- OK, my perception was mistaken. Nobody whines. Everyone has a right to air whatever they like.

Of course people whine, my point is that there is whining and there is genuine question with a dose of whining. :cool:

DairyLama

To be honest I find a good whine is quite therapeutic sometimes.

PrairieGhost

@ up'. I think it's a backlash to social progressiveness - but anyway, whatever the cause, it's a bit like a concertina of tough guys and whiners, and the whiners are the tough guys at a different time of day, and the tough guys are the whiners. Few people in the developed world are particularly stoic, comparatively speaking, but we have been fighting wars lately and sensing the vulnerability of our civilisation, and we have developed a neurotic idea that here is a weakness in sensitivity to the feelings of others.

The same kind of thing happened in Rome. We characterise decline in terms of luxury and effeteness, promote conservatism, monoculturalism and stoicism as the only way to petrify and preserve our way of life, ignoring the reality, that our culture only exists as it is being created, not later.

So I don't think whining or anti-whining is particularly Buddhist, I think it's a zeitgeist thing. May be rambling though.

JohnG

There must be exceptional cheese when rendering a whine. :om: