How can one be into Buddhism but at the same time doesnt 'seek outside' ? (isnt Buddhism outside?)

zenmyste

Buddhist teachers, Masters and friends, aswell as everyone else says that we should not 'seek' outside' - only seek within

But how do we do that and also practice Buddhism

If we are reading, and practising buddhism and doing buddhist meditation, surely we will be influenced by Buddhism!

But when we're ready to find our own path, how do we do it?

Do we remove Buddhism and just concentrate on MEDITATATION

As some of you may be aware from my previous post, im feeling a little lost lately...

Whats your thoughts here?

Thanks guys.

Jeffrey

All practices in Buddhism can be a life's practice, though if you feel you have gotten all the meaning you can look for another one. For example I think the Avatamska is over 1000 pages long.

I believe Buddhism is a transmission from teachers including frozen teachings in books and scripture.

It is not bad to concentrate on meditation. We have many lifetimes. According to the Pali Canon, if I am correct, the jhana meditation leads to becoming an arhat.

Sabre

You can't remove Buddhism and focus on meditation, because meditation is a part of Buddhism. But it's just one of the parts. Often, the buddhist path is divided into three parts: sila, samadhi, pañña, or: virtue, meditation and wisdom. It's quite an art to balance these parts, so we all have to find a way to do this skillfully. It's a process in itself, not always easy as you have noticed.

So don't do a 180 turn and only focus on meditation, because you'll run into getting stuck again. Meditation doesn't work when it has no base in virtue and wisdom.

But the order of sila, samadhi, pañña says something, I think. If you choose to focus mainly on one of the three, pick sila. Especially in our lay life it is not always easy or possible to have a steady meditation practice, and our wisdom may become blurred in certain situations. However, a solid ground in the precepts is reasonably possible for most people. And this will then provide a stable footing for the mind, resulting in a sense of contentment and skillful self-satisfaction.

So if you feel lost, I'd advice to start with sila, morality. Thus the 5 precepts. If you have not taken them, I'd advice to do so, you can also do it for yourself at home if you dont have the opportunity to do it at a monastery. And you can also extend the precepts; instead of not taking what is not given, share. Instead of lying, talk kindly and creating balance. Instead of killing and hurting, try to safe lives (of insects for example) This sila is really a great building block for the practice and might well be the thing to get you stable again.

If you have been keeping the precepts for a considerable time, you can start to reflect back on it and joy will arise because you have been good to yourself and others. This is a wonderful thing.

[Ananda:] "What, O Venerable One, is the reward and blessing of wholesome morality?"

[The Buddha:] "Freedom from remorse, Ananda."
"And of freedom from remorse?"
"Joy, Ananda"
"And of joy?"
"Rapture, Ananda"
"And of rapture?"
"Tranquillity, Ananda."
"And of tranquillity?"
"Happiness, Ananda."
"And of happiness?"
"Concentration, Ananda."
"And of concentration?"
"Vision and knowledge according to reality."
"And of the vision and knowledge according to reality?"
"Turning away and detachment, Ananda."
"And of turning away and detachment?"
"The vision and knowledge with regard to Deliverance, Ananda."

This way you won't look outside and still be into Buddhism, I think.

Here are some more sutta quotes about sila:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sila/index.html

Metta!

David

I think it is just basically a warning not to believe things that seem illogical to us.

I don't take everything all teachers teach about Buddhism as my Buddhist practice but take what works and put the rest aside.

Ultimately, we have to trust our inner b.s. detectors to see if a teaching conforms to our understanding of the dharma or expands it. If it does neither of these things I'm not too sure it is all that helpful.

how

Hey Zenmyste
With Zen, dropping the seeking, inside or out, is a meditation foundation. When you find that there is no real "you" , where ever you place your next steps will be the right path.
No need to remove anything. The meditation is just the process of not continually feeding the obstacles to sufferings end.

zenmyste

So if you feel lost, I'd advice to start with sila, morality. Thus the 5 precepts. If you have not taken them, I'd advice to do so, you can also do it for yourself at home if you dont have the opportunity to do it at a monastery. And you can also extend the precepts; instead of not taking what is not given, share. Instead of lying, talk kindly and creating balance. Instead of killing and hurting, try to safe lives (of insects for example) This sila is really a great building block for the practice and might well be the thing to get you stable again.

Thanks for your imput

However i dont need to ''take'' precepts or need Buddhism to tell me to follow certain things in life.
..

I never take what is given - and i am a sharing person. I always put others before me.

I dont lie - And i do talk honeslty, friendly and compassionate.

I dont kill - and if i see anyone in need i would help and safe them/animals..

..

Ive stated many times on here that the precepts are pretty much common sense to me..

Sabre

That's great. I agree with you that taking the precepts formally is not needed per se and I don't mean to say you NEED to. But it can provide an extra sense of feeling connected with the dhamma through practice, because included in taking the precepts is taking refuge in the triple gem. That way our mind links conduct and our spiritual development even more and it all becomes more part of a whole in a sense.

So taking the precepts can have more functions than you may think in first glance. You don't just take them to keep them. People also retake them without having broken them. It's a great reminder or reflection on what we are doing, why, and how it all fits together.


Anyway,

I would use your morality as a base to work with. Can you take it into your meditation? Maybe start of with reflecting on your conduct and see if it can provide some happiness. And take it into wisdom. Does it make you happy? Does it make you feel more free? And why? How could you develop it further, maybe?

So take the practical side. The practical side is the 'inside'. The precepts are inside. Doing something good gives a totally different feeling than reading about doing something good. As you said, it is not really a thing of understanding, it is a thing of "common sense". But that doesn't mean it is not worth focussing on again.

Hope you can take that way into the dhamma and lose a bit of confusion.

Metta!

Jason

Because Buddhism is like a mirror that reflects our attention back inwards, with the added bonus of giving us tools to help us explore our inner world safely and effectively.

DairyLama

But when we're ready to find our own path, how do we do it?

There are many paths, and quite a few within Buddhism.
What you might find helpful is to just do a simple meditation practice for a while and not worry too much about all the questions?

seeker242

If Buddhism is the "cultivation of Sila, Samadhi and Pranja", then I don't think the cultivation of those is something "outside" because it's something that you actively and intentionally do. Why is the cultivation of those things considered to be "outside" to begin with?

genkaku

If you want to believe in 'outside,' go ahead and believe it ... and practice.

If you want to believe in 'inside,' go ahead and believe it ... and practice.

'Inside' and 'outside' fill up the spiritual-life bookshelves and incite lengthy conversations.

But you are not limited by books and lengthy conversation cannot assure peace.

Just practice ... and see what happens.

DairyLama

'Inside' and 'outside' fill up the spiritual-life bookshelves and incite lengthy conversations.

Yep, but I need some kind of distraction from meditation.

sova

@zenmyste What @genkaku said was right on if you ask me. Where do you draw the line between "inside" and "outside" ?

Our surroundings are much closer than we [can] think.

"Peace comes from within, do not seek it without" doesn't mean to abandon the outside, but it does mean that your central focus should be the inside. Like if you have 4 friends that talk about body building all the time, chances are some of that rubs off on you -- likewise if you surround yourself with spiritual profundity, or with great gurus or sages, but that too is not enough to progress one along the path, as true transformation can only arise within.

So to me, your original post is really part of what I would call the miracle of Buddhism -- as it is a science of the inner heart and Dharma is the technology that allows us to really come to understanding it, and even allows us to discuss it! Dharma is like the heat that lets bubbles percolate up through the water (when you boil water) and it is like a window that lets every bubble come to know that it is not of separate essence from the other bubbles trending toward the top.


I think the greatest teaching I have come across in my personal experience so far has been the teaching of Karma, and I think spending more time to understanding cause+effect, especially from a Natural point-of-view (seeds planted in a field will grow || what you reap is what you sow) is infinitely valuable.

My brother really likes this book called The 12 Principles of Karma -- I think I was looking for something like this when I first started studying, and I would basically call it a Buddhist Bible, that's the sense I get about it. It may be of value to you on your journey.


With love, within and without ;D
sova

pegembara

Buddhist teachers, Masters and friends, aswell as everyone else says that we should not 'seek' outside' - only seek within

Seeking outside means you are looking for things that are unreliable. The only reliable refuge is to look within.

"Monks, there are these two searches: ignoble search & noble search. And what is ignoble search? There is the case where a person, being subject himself to birth, seeks [happiness in] what is likewise subject to birth. Being subject himself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, he seeks [happiness in] what is likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement.

"I, too, monks, before my Awakening, when I was an unawakened bodhisatta, being subject myself to birth, sought what was likewise subject to birth. Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, I sought [happiness in] what was likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement. The thought occurred to me, 'Why do I, being subject myself to birth, seek what is likewise subject to birth? Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, why do I seek what is likewise subject to illness... death... sorrow... defilement? What if I, being subject myself to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, were to seek the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding? What if I, being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, were to seek the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less,, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding?'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.026.than.html

David

'Inside' and 'outside' fill up the spiritual-life bookshelves and incite lengthy conversations.

Yep, but I need some kind of distraction from meditation.

What would happen if we transformed the distractions as focal points of meditation? I still wonder if it's possible to be in a meditative state at all times by being one with each dish we wash and are truely there for our distractions one at a time?

Would zazen then become simply a power supply for lack of a better term?

Interesting thread.