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The Spiritual Crisis of Capitalism

B5CB5C Veteran
edited July 2012 in Philosophy
The Spiritual Crisis of Capitalism
When the Dalai Lama announced his Marxist leanings last summer in Minneapolis, the only surprise was how surprising it was. The blogosphere was once again stirred up by this non-revelation. Tsering Namgyal, an Indian-born Tibetan journalist who lives and studies in the US, was tagging along when the Dalai Lama met with 150 Chinese students for a three-hour conference in Minneapolis in June 2011. Writing for the online magazine Religion Dispatches, Namgyal posted that the Dalai Lama surprised the students when he volunteered, “as far as socio-political beliefs are concerned, I consider myself a Marxist.” And he went on to clarify that he was “not a Leninist.” Namgyal’s post reported that a student asked about the apparent contradiction in the Dalai Lama’s economic philosophy and Marx’s critique of religion. The Dalai Lama’s understanding was more nuanced than most of the bloggers who jumped on the story: he suggested that Marx was not actually against religion or religious philosophy per se, but “against religious institutions that were allied, during Marx’s time, with the European ruling class.” (That would be the capitalist class.) The three-hour exchange was probably not designed for political sound-bites.

The year before he gave a series of talks in New York at the Radio City Music Hall. The Dalai Lama’s news office included the following report in their summary:

His Holiness said when he was in China in 1954–55, the Communist Party of China was really wonderful, and the Party members were really dedicated to the service of the people. His Holiness said he was very much impressed and told Chinese officials about his desire to join the Party. His Holiness said he still is a Marxist (although some of his friends ask him not to mention that) and he admired its objective of equal distribution (“this is moral ethics”). His Holiness however talked about the clampdown after the [1957] Hundred Flowers Campaign in China itself and said any authoritarian system always subdues any force that has the potential to stand up to it.
You might think he had his thoughts on the 99% and the pulse of an emerging international indignation/indignado movement soon to be focused on issues of inequality and wealth distribution, but the Dalai Lama has said the same thing many times before – including in a 1999 TIME Magazine interview and this 1996 passage from Beyond Dogma: Dialogues and Discourses in 1996:

"Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of Marxism is founded on moral principles, while capitalism is concerned with only with gain and profitability. Marxism is concerned with the distribution of wealth on an equal basis and the equitable utilization of the means of production. It is also concerned with the fate of the working classes – that is the majority – as well as with the fate of those who are underprivileged and in need, and Marxism cares about the victims of minority-imposed exploitation. For those reasons the system appeals to me, and it seems fair … The failure of the regime in the Soviet Union was, for me not the failure of Marxism but the failure of totalitarianism. For this reason I think of myself as half-Marxist, half-Buddhist. "
You can find the rest here:
http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/102/spiritual-crisis-of-capitalism.html

Comments

  • hhdl is just hhdl
    does he have to please everyone?
  • I, too, find Marxism appealing on a theoretical level where it's asumed people are inherently intelligent and moral. I find the world of fairy tales appealing on a theoretical level where it's assumed good always triumphs in the end and Love Conquers All. But let's talk about the real world.

    The failure of Marxism is due to a fatal flaw in Marxism and cannot be excused, with apologies to HHDL. A beautifully constructed theory either works or it doesn't in the real world when tested, and that's all there is to it. The flaw, it turns out, is that Marxism neglects to factor in normal human behavior. Someone has to set and enforce the rules, meaning someone has to hold the reins of power. Given Buddha said everyone, everywhere is infected with Selfish Desires, then of course Marxism always evolves to a ruling class with more and more wealth and privilage.

    And Marxism itself becomes the religion it preaches against.

    I'd love to hear the HHDL discuss these points.
  • Marx was a critic of the economic times he lived in, especially the economic assumptions of that time. This is Marx's higher ideal is a nutshell.

    “Abolishing the division of labour means, according to Marx, abolishing the subsumption of man under the conditions of his work. Hence it means the emancipation of man from the narrowness and partiality imposed upon him by the condition of alienated labour”(The Social and Political Thought of Karl Marx By Shlomo Avineri, 231).

    Sounds Buddhist to me. Incidentally, Marx heaped praise on the middle class as the most revolutionary formation that history has recorded.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I agree with @Cinorjer, Marxism doesn't work in the real world. I favor capitalism with a progressive tax rate to help reduce the negative effects of the inequality inherent in capitalism.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Marxism doesn't work in the real world.

    Does capitalism work in the real world?
    ;)
  • ZeroZero Veteran

    Marxism doesn't work in the real world.
    I favor capitalism with a progressive tax rate to help reduce the negative effects of the inequality inherent in capitalism.
    Could say that about Buddhism as well.

    It doesn't work in the real world likely because of human nature - I favour each of us looking at our nature and taking responsibility - if human nature is to blame then each and every one of us shares that blame (jointly and severally).

    The failings of Marxism are also the failings of capitalism (i.e. progressive taxation in capitalism will fail for the same human reason that Marxism overall fails for) - surely on that basis it is preferable to consider a system that has a flaw in application (not inherent in the subject of the practice) (i.e. Marxism) rather than a flawed system that fits to the flawed human nature (i.e. Capitalism)! The former allows an opportunity for society to grow in a different direction whereas the latter maintains the staus quo with some pressure release vents.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    It doesn't work in the real world likely because of human nature - I favour each of us looking at our nature and taking responsibility - if human nature is to blame then each and every one of us shares that blame (jointly and severally).
    Yes, it seems like marxism is based on idealism, whereas capitalism is based on cynicism.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Marxism doesn't work in the real world.

    Does capitalism work in the real world?
    ;)
    You hit the nail on the head. I don't think there is any economic system that works...if by working we mean that stays on an even keel and serves all the needs of society. In my view a person prefers capitalism or socialism not because they work, but because of other ideas they hold.

  • Porpoise: Great response! "Does capitalism work in the real world?" I had to chuckle at that. Most people don't realize there are different kinds of capitalism. The American right only believes in one kind which is predatory capitalism, the few preying on the many. The capitalism of Sweden or Denmark, as examples, is certainly different than American capitalism. However, it is still capitalism—but better in a number of respects which leads to a better distribution of the wealth.
  • B5CB5C Veteran
    It was Buddhism which lead me into Marxism and Socialism. Why? When does Capitalism promote compassionate ideals without trying to make a buck from those ideals?
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    edited July 2012
    One author says Marx was wrong on communism but right about capitalism:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14764357

    I like to think sometimes that capitalism is the most free and open system and it adapts itself to how people behave - namely if greed is prevalent, we will have inequality and depletion of resources and all the other problems we're seeing now, but the less greedy and more generous and selfless people become, it may as well adapt itself to that. Maybe it would resemble some form of socialism then? One thing's for sure, imposing socialism on the economy and society hasn't worked.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    In my view capitalism is much more organic and follows more closely with natural law. Nature is cruel though so I'm far from a lassiez faire capitalist. I fully believe in its ability to efficiently allocate resources freeing up resources for a further improvement in material standards.

    The current system has many flaws though. There is no economic value placed on many environmental resources and many other things or activities that we value.

    There is a spiritual crises in capitalism in that its values are out of whack or maybe non existent.

    As far as not working in the real world and Buddhism. The difference I see is that Buddhism is an individual activity whereas capitalism is a much broader social system.
  • edited July 2012
    One author says Marx was wrong on communism but right about capitalism:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14764357

    I like to think sometimes that capitalism is the most free and open system and it adapts itself to how people behave - namely if greed is prevalent, we will have inequality and depletion of resources and all the other problems we're seeing now, but the less greedy and more generous and selfless people become, it may as well adapt itself to that. Maybe it would resemble some form of socialism then? One thing's for sure, imposing socialism on the economy and society hasn't worked.
    I think that's what they now call the difference between revolutionary communism and democratic socialism: where the former would violently overthrow capitalism and force socialism on the people, the latter seeks only gradual democratic reform towards socialism; which can only begin with change in the attitudes of the electorate itself. Many revolutionary communists forget (or don't care) that Marx himself said capitalism was a necessary transitional stage towards socialism, and that socialism should be achieved through democratic reform wherever possible. This is why I agree with the Dalai Lama that the Soviet Union was 'not the failure of Marxism but the failure of totalitarianism'.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    Does capitalism work in the real world?
    ;)
    It does if it's tempered with socialist elements, like safety nets of various sorts, regulation of business, and so forth. Like the US used to have in the post WWII decades, until Reagan.

    HHDL seems to have missed the fact that religious institutions in Tibet was indeed aligned with the monied ruling classes. To a great extent, they were one and the same.

    Lots of things look nice and moral and practical in theory. When put into practice, human elements come into play. Greed, lust for power, zealotry.

  • SileSile Veteran
    edited July 2012
    But religious institutions were staffed/peopled by the families of the herders, farmers and traders in that very region; if a monastery was supported in some way by the monied ruling classes, that means that the peoples' own relatives (sons, uncles, nephews, daughters, nieces, aunts) were supported by the monied ruling classes. I imagine that's one reason a life in the clergy was so popular.

    Aside from any major, monied institutions, though, there are/were countless rather modest monasteries and nunneries which could not really be accused of exuberant spending habits.

    I do agree that human elements come into play; certainly humans have greed, but they also have a desire to see their children educated, fed, respected, and living a relatively less harsh life than, say, herding and so forth. There doesn't seem to be a tradition of deep-seated resentment against the monasteries and nunneries in Tibet; quite the contrary, so it's hard for me to accept that it was somehow a begrudging system. It seems by nearly all counts to be/have been quite highly regarded.
  • ZendoLord84ZendoLord84 Veteran
    edited July 2012
    the capatalistic world had it coming
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    HHDL seems to have missed the fact that religious institutions in Tibet was indeed aligned with the monied ruling classes. To a great extent, they were one and the same.
    Wasn't Tibet traditionally a feudal society?
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited July 2012
    HHDL seems to have missed the fact that religious institutions in Tibet was indeed aligned with the monied ruling classes. To a great extent, they were one and the same.
    Wasn't Tibet traditionally a feudal society?
    Before we get into this question, what is our definition (at least a loose one to start with) of feudalism?

    Here are several historians' observations:

    There is also a broader definition, as described by Marc Bloch (1939), that includes not only warrior nobility but all three estates of the realm: the nobility, the clerics, and the peasantry bonds of manorialism; this is sometimes referred to as a "feudal society". Since 1974 with the publication of Elizabeth A. R. Brown's The Tyranny of a Construct, and Susan Reynolds' Fiefs and Vassals (1994), there has been ongoing inconclusive discussion among medieval historians as to whether feudalism is a useful construct for understanding medieval society.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism

    I hear it suggested that Tibet was a feudalist society, but I'm never quite sure what that is to mean in contrast to the societies of Tibet's neighbors (Turkestan, China, India etc.)

    My grandparents lived and worked in the border regions of China, Tibet and Turkestan; the difference in their daily experience generally had to do with which language to use and which style of roof the patient's house had, lol. Beyond that, a toothache is a toothache.

    Muslim warlords such as Ma Bufang did exact travel tolls and and so forth in that region (west of Lanzhou, China and a small way into Tibet), but that was pretty common practice in many border regions of Asia. Once past the border area, power was generally in the hands of various village heads--much like Native American society. A village or community exerted its power only so far, and then you were either between villages or into the next community.

    In wild, often harsh climates and terrains such as Tibet, there is often a sort of hospitality code, not unlike that in Afghanistan and desert regions of the world. It's not that travelers faced no danger, but most people were quite supportive of the fact that it could be difficult to survive on the road, and would help out a passing stranger, take them in overnight, etc.

    I guess that's why talk of "feudalism" sometimes perplexes me, because most of the stories I have from my grandparents are tales of great generosity (and interesting characters, to be sure).
  • The fact that most people can be taught to accept an authoratarian government really only says something about the nature of people, not if that government is benevolent. That does raise the question of, should we expect a Buddhist ruling class to be different? An honest look at history and current events tells us, no. People who rule become invested first and foremost in maintaining power and order. People who rule in the name of religion are especially problematic. Who can question divinity? Who can demand change when the Gods or Buddha himself proclaim the law?
  • SileSile Veteran
    Here's a humorous and fascinating article by Melissa Snell, "The F-Word: Where's the Fief?" examining the validity of feudalism as a construct:

    http://historymedren.about.com/od/feudalism/a/feudalism.htm
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