Types of Buddhisms and requirments and how to become a Budhist officially

ningjing1977

Hi

Im new to this. Im a 35 male from Surrey England, I practice Shaolin Martial Arts Gong Fu and Sanda, im learning mandarin in my spare time. I have been reading a lot about Buddhism with an interest in chan Buddhism being linked to shaolin martial arts but have some questions I hope you guys can help with. Where can I find the basic princlples behind the main Buddhist groups such as ther or may, but also the different sub groups like chan (zen) , i was also wondering is there any initiation ceromony, how do you change from christian to Buddhist offically so you would fill out paper work and state what your religion was. I have had a chat with a new friend on here by pm who was great help but im just casting my questions onto the main wall. Thanks everyone in advance.

vinlyn

In Theravada practice, you would not.

Linc

You could join a sangha (and I expect you'd find that beneficial if you find a good one) but there's no requirement to "converting." When you decide your practice has begun, you're a Buddhist.

Linc

Or you can send me $50 and I will mail you a certificate

vinlyn

Actually, I should expand on my short response above. When I was ready to begin calling myself a Buddhist, I went to an English-speaking monk in Bangkok and asked him about conversion ceremonies. He looked very puzzled. So I explained to him about Catholic confirmation ceremonies. He told me that in Theravada there really are no such ceremonies, unless, of course, you are becoming a monk. He said, "When you think like a Buddhist and act like a Buddhist, then you are a Buddhist.

Over time I asked a couple other monks the same question, and basically the same answer. That it was within myself, not without.

DairyLama

Or you can send me $50 and I will mail you a certificate

I'm cheaper though..

ningjing1977

Ok great thanks, so when some one fills out a form or paper work, and puts in the box, or ticks a box that says buddhist, they arnt refering to any offical commitment, as im currently a christian so if i said i was a buddhist but im offically a christian...confussed dot com

RebeccaS

There's nothing official about being a Christian. Sure, you do the confirmation and stuff but it doesn't matter outside the church and your own heart. It doesn't really mean anything. Nobody will accuse you of apostasy if you choose to leave the church and they only put it on forms for data collection, it's not really anything about you at all.

ningjing1977

True just seems christains give a whole christining thing ect that would be documented, but then if i wanted to change , would i have to remove myself from the christening thing first, i cant be christian and buddhist surely. Also whats to stop anyone sayin gim a buddhist, is there no initiation or anything, how do i know what changes im meant to make in my life. For example, ok ill say from now on im a buddhist, but ill carry on as normall, lets say im a really bad person, so ill carry on, fighting, doing drugs, stealing ect. Now of course im not like that, but as an example, i can then say im a buddhist. I know that christains do this,just becuase your christinined doesnt make you a nice person, i know that ,but theres a church you can go to for guidance, a priest that you can go to about sins and advice ect, group meetings to attend,coffee mornings, it has a social network of support i guess im asking if theres a equililent in buddhism, or is a simple case of saying, im a buddhist now. Im rubbish at explaining things in writing, hope im not too confussing

RebeccaS

Self honesty is the solution.

ningjing1977

Explain more Rebecca , you mean as long as im a buddhist in my self then thats all that matters. I kinda understand what you mean. Where would I find someone to show me more detial , how im meant to follow different shools of thoughts, I find it really tough gettin ginformation, the internet is good, but you cant beat a chat with a real person. Im in surrey by the way , any offers.

RebeccaS

As Vinlyn said, think like a Buddhist and act like a Buddhist and you're a Buddhist. You know when you're doing something unBuddhist.

Start with the four noble truths and the eightfold path. That should get you started and I think all the schools agree on them, though I'm not sure.

When it comes to different schools, I really don't know enough to help you out there, I'm still exploring them myself

ningjing1977

Thank you, I have that place of worship near me, i have emailed them asking to visit as they had an offer on their website , ill see how that goes. Ill also start a post to see if theres any local people about with the same interests

karasti

If you greatly feel the need, you can always write a letter to whatever church you are a member of, and tell them you would no longer like to be a member. If you no longer believe in the Christian ways, then you are no longer a Christian. There's no test or anything

If you decide to take a teacher and follow him/her, they may require you to take refuge and/or the 5 precepts before they are willing to say you are their student. I've met some who don't care either way, and some who are reluctant to teach you if you have not taking refuge especially. Just depends on the tradition and the teacher.

Zero

@ningjing1977 - take your time - you have an entire life time - go easy - stay here and read, checkout other forums and read, obtain books and read - there is no requirement to commit - just try to find sources and assimilate them and think about what you are doing from moment to moment - in time, you will find what you need, whether that is community, teacher, knowledge whatever - everything takes time...

On the 'official' religion issue - there is no legal requirement relating to religion - you do not even have to disclose your religion - it is purely a personal label attached by you - christianity is not a gang in the sense that it's not an enforceable blood in blood out (any detriment is dealt via the mechanisms of the faith system, so e.g. in christianity, turning away from Jesus as the sole salvation of mankind and the way to God will result in you being sent to hell... but if you dont believe in christianity then like, who cares?)

Stop saying youre a christian and say youre a buddhist - stop ticking the christian box and tick buddhist - job done - as far as the world is concerned you are now a buddhist.

Ficus_religiosa

Contemplate the four noble truths,
follow the five precepts (at least the first four, try to follow the fifth, but let's face it: it's difficult in this world of ours),
take refuge in the Dhamma, Buddha and Sangha (I use this place as my Sangha), Meditate regularly,
Read the Dhamma,
Observe the Noble 8fold Path
And...
You're off very well indeed

genkaku

@Ningjing1977 -- Welcome and I hope you find something useful here. Together with the good advice offered above, I would like to add (no disrespect intended) a slightly tongue in cheek riff I wrote in the past:

Elsewhere on the Internet, someone asked how to know if s/he were a Buddhist. I recognize that this question can honestly mean something to some people, but I couldn't restrain myself....

Here are the ten incontrovertible qualifications for really being a real Buddhist really:

1. Adopt a wise and wizened demeanor -- someplace between George Clooney and Mahatma Gandhi.

2. Memorize the 108 holiest and most convoluted of all possible paradoxes. Dispense as necessary.

3. Clothes ... don't forget the clothes!

4. Walk slowly as if permeated with some weighty liquid.

5. If you're a lay person, yearn for ordination. If you're an ordained person, yearn for laicization.

6. Chant softly but audibly in public rest rooms.

7. If you visit a temple or monastery, make sure to bring home some small tourist treasure to indicate you visited. Hang it prominently, but with humble discretion, in your living room...next to all those books, perhaps.

8. Offer a small, carefully-crafted smile when someone tells you a first-class joke.

9. If someone asks you if you are a Buddhist, consider the question in a dour and somewhat quizzical silence.

10. Treat all beings with equanimity and kindness ... right up until the moment when you can't stand it any more and simply kick the cat. Repent as necessary.

And if all of this strikes you as utterly ludicrous, find a Buddhist practice, practice it and never mind who's a Buddhist and who's not.

Everyone suffers ... nuff said

RebeccaS

That was genius! Lmao. Nice one.

Amelia

True just seems christains give a whole christining thing ect that would be documented, but then if i wanted to change , would i have to remove myself from the christening thing first, i cant be christian and buddhist surely.

I know a few people who are Buddhist and Christian. One of them is a Christian monk who also practices Zen.

Dakini

If you find a sangha you like, you can take refuge, which is a sort of swearing-in ceremony. You pledge to take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha, when you feel ready. There's a site online that charts out the differences and specifics of each Buddhist tradition, but I've never been able to get it post here. You could Google around. If you don't find a Ch'an center in your area, Zen would be the closest thing to that. Some regard them as the same thing.

karasti

I think it would be hard to combine 2 religions (most of them) and claim to be a strict follower of both. However, there are a lot of people who consider Buddhism to be both religion and philosophy, so they use those philosophies. My sister is a "Buddhist who believes the teachings of Christ with some Paganism thrown in" by her own definition. She won't say she's Christian, because identifying as Christian these days goes far beyond just believing what Jesus taught. I went from Christianity (and initially I did have a desire to officially renounce my Christian faith, but I got over it as I grew out of the religion I was raised with, and into my own) to Paganism and then to Buddhism. I didn't really change from Pagan to Buddhist, but more so Buddhism for me grew out of Paganism. Some things with Paganism didn't sit right with me, and I realized after doing some reading that the things that I did like about it, fit very well into Buddhism.

ANYHOW. I think you'll find a lot of opinion about what makes one a Buddhist or not a Buddhist. A Lama I sent to a retreat with a couple weeks ago said that there are people who are Buddhist, and people who appreciate Buddhism. If you do not practice what Buddhism teaches, you appreciate or admire Buddhism but are not a Buddhist (his words, not mine). For me personally, taking refuge and precepts will be an important thing to me, and I'll most likely be doing it in the fall when my teacher returns from his trip to Asia.

federica

@ningjing1977,
Hello and welcome! As a fellow Brit (and I lived in Hampshire, close to the Surrey border) I can equate with the confusion and questions you're asking yourself, because I spent the (so far) greater portion of my life as a Christian, too...

May I suggest something?

Relax.
As my dear elderly Italian aunt is given to saying, "Ma chi te lo fa fare?"
(But who's making you do it?)

In other words, all this pressure is actually coming from you, because Buddhism is neither dogmatic nor imposing in its approach. In actual fact, it's quite laid back and easy-going, because ultimately all you do is controlled by you....
However, people have approached me and accused me of 'taking the easy way out'... that is, in turning my back on God, I have opted to therefore be accountable to no-one, and cop out of being responsible, conscientious and methodical in my approach to life.

i have actually found that the opposite to be true;
As a Christian, you are taught, in one way or another, to 'surrender' your life to God, and to put it all "out there" in his hands.
In Buddhism, the more earnestly you apply what you learn, and absorb, accept and integrate it into your life, the more you realise that the buck stops with you - it's all, in fact, "in here".
There's no escape from 'the man in the mirror'.
Having to be your own boss, run your own show, and tally u the figures at the end of the day, is actually a more demanding practice, and you really find that you have to step up to the plate and take it on the chin, because ain't nobody no-how gonna take this one off your shoulders buddy - you have a weight to carry, you better get body-building!

However, just as anybody just starting in training is not going to squat-lift the equivalent of the entire England Rugby Team - so we too, as Buddhists, are encouraged to go easy, take little steps - and quit beating ourselves up.
There is what we refer to as "Taking Refuge" and even here, some Buddhists differ in their opinions as to how, when and why this should be undertaken - I would say broadly speaking, that it depends on which Tradition you eventually choose to follow, but from a purely personal PoV, I conducted my own little private, home-made ceremony, and Took Refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha. I repeat these commitments every day, just to reinforce my objectives, and put myself into a good frame of mind for the day ahead...
I tend to by and large follow the Theravada Tradition, although I do incorporate some Tibetan Buddhist practices (Mahayana) simply because I find they work well with me, and I gain precious direction from them.
But I've been doing this for around 2 decades, now, so give yourself time - don't rush, just listen, share, ask and stick around....

Hopefully - as @genkaku so succinctly puts it - you'll find something useful here.

ningjing1977

Hey everyone, thanks for all the replys , so the refuge bit is when you get a teacher and commit ect to take it seriously and you show you mean buisness and really want to learn and follow buddhism. So if I decide I wanted to do that, is there a way of finding a teacher or do I just ask around, maybe try the place of worship near me, thanks again , its funny as with christianity, people knock on your door offering advice and asking you to join, this buddhism stuff is tricky stuff to learn

federica

The Refuge bit' as you put it, is when you feel ready within yourself to take that step. Depending on tradition and custom, you may or may not need a teacher - up to you....

My argument would be that it's merely a step - but that if you practice and study Buddhism, and feel it has a special place in your life, and you are mindful of its teachings, recommendations and guidance on a daily basis - you have, so to speak, earned the right to call yourself a bona-fide, real-life Buddhist, with or without Taking Refuge.

ningjing1977

Yeah I agree, so my personal view, for me, would be to have a teacher, so you have advice and guidance and a wise person in the know to point you in the right direction if you get lost, do you know if chan budhism from the mahayana branch recommends a teacher, excuse my spelling

yuriythebest

Or you can send me $50 and I will mail you a certificate

Lincoln is not reputable, his mouth speaks lies and abominations, and his mind is full of half truths and excuses. He knows not true wisdom nor the way, for surely, how can someone who lives in a den of thieves be not a thief himself? stay clear of him, for he hangs around unknown women and listens to foreign music. Instead, send me 259$ for a PREMIUM Buddhism conversion kit.

genkaku

@ningjing1977 -- Take your time. Having a flesh and blood teacher can be a very helpful thing, but it's not like going to Walmart to buy a widget. Snoop the terrain -- read, go to lectures, visit one or more centers, see how the suit actually suits you. There are different schools of Buddhism and different emphases ... take your time: Buddhism is for you; it's not for somebody else. Buddhism has exactly zero importance outside what you bring to it.

Best wishes.

ningjing1977

Thanks genkaku, ill look into it and learn what's the best path to take for me.

Invincible_summer

do you know if chan budhism from the mahayana branch recommends a teacher, excuse my spelling

There are hundreds if not thousands of Chan Buddhist monks/teachers/leaders. I would worry less about the name and more about getting someone who's near where you live... although if there's a teacher of high repute in your area that's even better.


Also, I've noticed that many Chan temples tend to incorporate a lot of Pure land Buddhist stuff too, as is typical with Chinese Buddhism. You should figure out if your'e okay with that.

ningjing1977

Thanks Summer, whats pure land ?, ive read that in china pure land is the same as mahayana, am i right. Sorry really struggling at the moment to figure out the different types. You describe pure land as seperate part added to mahayana. Sorry im just really finding it difficult

nobodhi

Who's a Buddhist? What's Buddhism?

A recent survey found 1 in 8 American take teachings of the Buddha to heart as of vital importance in their going about their lives. They might be Christian, or atheist, Jewish or Buddhist: it's a rather large amorphous group, at that level. As mentioned above, there are degrees of formality, but I'd take them not as positions but as practice.

Buddhism, I'm pleased to say, doesn't exist: it's a made-up word in the West, as we like labels. In the East, an equivalent term would be BuddhaDharma, meaning just How It Is.

What's Pure Land? Basically, it's devotional and emphasizes chanting. And it's the largest 'school' yet up until now mostly adhered to by East Asians. There are different spins on it, but an easy way in is to take the Pure Land or Clear Realm as a symbolic image of Pure or Clear Mind. So the awakening to your own Buddha Nature is akin to discovering a beautiful place to be. [I live near Chinatown, in San Francisco, so I sometimes immerse myself in that living stream ( they provide me with a phonetic book so i can join in Chinese chanting, then we all cook vegetarian lunch together.) And I'm also facilitating a mindfulness practice group these days in a Japanese Pure Land Temple, (called Shin, aka Jodo Shinshu), which has its particular spin on Pure Land. (Not to worry.)]

I'd repeat the suggestion that there's no Buddhism for you except for what you find to be true and helpful and which you put into practice in your own life ... ideally with a teacher and group of fellow beings.

That "see for yourself" emphasis (or politic) means that whatever shore the boat of BuddhaDharma docked at, in its early days, it mixed with the living native culture of the times, and so adapted to East Asian elements in China, Korea, Japan, etc.; with Himalayan culture in Tibet, Bhutan, Mongolia; with southeast Asia traditions in Sri Lanka, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Burma, etc.

There's no Vatican, no central authority, not even a manager -- and, as you've noticed mostly no 'knocking on doors' ( aka prosyletizing ).

You're getting such a great deal of solid sound wisdom, it makes me quite happy to witness. When I'd started seeking more information, in the 1950s, there were more Buddhas behind glass cases in museums than living teachers on cushions. Now we find there's a great variety, and in some cases there are mixing and matching of different traditions. Benedictines teach Zen. Stephen Batchelor studied Tibetan Buddhism, then Korean (a form of Zen) and now treaches a kind of agnostic view (Buddhism without beliefs). And so on.

I practice as someone of Jewish heritage, a Jewish Buddhist. There are also Buddhist Jews, who keep the practices of Judaism, while viewing life thru the ethical / wisdom tradition of BuddhaDharma (aka Buddhism).

My own teacher, Ven Thich Nhat Hanh, hails from a country somewhat equidistant between China and India, and teaches a marriage of Vipassana (aka Insight, Theravada; sometimes known as Hinayana, as practiced around Sri Lanka, say) and East Asian Mahayana schools (Zen, plus some Pure Land). He was also a comparative religions student at Columbia, and his Living Buddha, Living Christ spoke so clearly to me, a Jew, that it made Jesus come alive for me for the first time.

I'm not prosyletiziing but only because you'd asked about books, here at New Buddhist, I'll take that openness to input as permission to offer you information about a Buddhist group practicing in that in your corner of the universe, because it's what I happen to know best -- and feel it very approachable for a beginner. In fact, it remains a very easy, simple tradition. The contact would be Jeremy at Guildford, Tel (44) 1483 502582 j.allam@surrey.ac.uk.

St Catherine said everything between here and heaven is heaven. It's all good. Enjoy.

ningjing1977

Wow thank you, thats great, i will contact the person at guildford. Im from guildford so that is very handy , thanks for all your advice and information

caz

You become a Buddhist when you take Refuge ask your local centers about taking Refuge vows.

ningjing1977

Thank you, im on the case, have been a good contact locally to me , also have a worship place locally to visit.

nobodhi

your sharing your making your way for yourself can be quite nourishing

Kangaroo

I can't say enough about Living Buddha, Living Christ by Ven Thich Nhat Hanh. It continues to be a great source of reference and inspiration.