Buddhism's view of "human nature"

ClayTheScribe

I often hear people talk about human nature. It's usually in regard to our more vile, disgusting or harmful habits and behaviors. They also mention how it is unchanging and therefore certain negative things will always happen in our species. But if Buddhism teaches us that nothing is permanent and everything changes, why does human nature not? Furthermore, I don't always agree with what is human nature. Having come to a spiritual understanding of what we are underneath our bodies and that an enlightened being is not so extraordinary because she is simply humans in their natural state. And enlightened beings are remarkably different in many ways from those who exhibit the unchanging "human nature." So, what is human nature and can it be changed?

Cloud

I'm interested in what "human nature" even means. It seems much too vague.

ClayTheScribe

Great point, Cloud. How come human nature is so unchanging, yet no one can really define it?

genkaku

And once anyone nails down "human nature," I'd be grateful if they did the same for "love," "freedom," "enlightenment," "compassion," "emptiness," and (oh what the hell) "s'mores."

Cloud

@ClayTheScribe, Perhaps "human nature" is just the nature of craving? This wouldn't make it any different than the nature of other animals (or any "life" forms), except for the fact that humans have greater memory/intelligence and so crave more things. And so Buddha-Nature would be the opposite, our capacity to go beyond craving altogether. Or something.

Tosh

Great point, Cloud. How come human nature is so unchanging, yet no one can really define it?

It's called 'nature' because it's difficult to define I think.

ClayTheScribe

But how can we saw humans will ALWAYS suffer from craving? We are evolving creatures. I doubt we'd be able to recognize ourselves 2 million years from now. All people have to base "human nature" on is the past 100,000 years of our development, which is a millisecond in the course of the evolution of a species. It seems incredibly subjective.

Tosh

And once anyone nails down "human nature," I'd be grateful if they did the same for "love,"

To love someone is the mere wish for them to be happy.

That'll be ten dollars please!

seeker242

Perhaps "human nature" is just ignorance, as that is the reason why beings are born humans to begin with? So human nature does not generally change because ignorance is always the cause of humans being born to begin with. My teacher's teacher said "Human being is already a mistake!" So perhaps the five skandhas‎ are always changing, but the cause of being stuck in them does not change. I don't think Buddhism teaches that nothing is permanent and everything changes because the truth of dharma does not change. Ignorance will always cause human birth, or some other birth, so these beings will always naturally display this ignorance, that caused them to be born to begin with. But that does not mean that ignorance can not be removed because the Buddha was a human and he removed it. Something like that.

Dakini

Isn't human nature, or the human condition suffering, in Buddhism? And suffering is based on ignorance of our true nature, ignorance about material things being important, etc.

Our own nature can/does change, and that's one reason we practice the Dharma--to free ourselves of ignorance & defilements, to end our own suffering. But in the Lamrim, it says there will always be suffering beings. I suppose that contradicts the idea that we're all supposed to pledge to end suffering for all sentient beings. Apparently that's the ideal, but the reality is that it's not achievable. So the Lamrim would have us believe, apparently.

Songhill

The problem with "human nature" is the problem with human experience. If we expect to realize our Buddha-nature in human experience what will happen is that we may end up identifying our human experience, hence, our human nature, with the Buddha-nature. They are not the same.

Cloud

ClayTheScribe said:

But how can we saw humans will ALWAYS suffer from craving?

Craving is not only the cause of suffering (Second Noble Truth), but also the cause of rebirth. That's of course assuming we accept the Four Noble Truths and Rebirth. What else would keep us around, except craving and clinging to life?

If we understand all of the ways that craving causes suffering, that craving is suffering, it's safe to say that there will be suffering where craving is found. Evolution wouldn't seem to have anything to do with it... even beings said to be god-like (devas) experience craving and suffering to some extent, so it's not like we're going to simply evolve our way out of craving. If anything it would be the evolution of thought, the progression toward enlightenment by directed effort of the species, that would free us from craving.

ClayTheScribe

Evolution, hopefully, is a collaboration between nature, time and the species involved. So far we've been pushed forward by biological impulses and time, but more and more we are having an opportunity to accelerate and alter our evolution and that's what I was talking about. Directed effort of moving toward enlightenment could fundamentally change what we thought of as "human nature" over the next several millions of years. That's not to mention our projected use of implants and cybernetic technology to alter how we think, feel and behave. The next few hundred years are going to be very interesting and weird, well from our point of view, in the development of our species I predict. I do think this coming century and perhaps millennium will be an age of enlightenment through spirituality (without the confines of religion) and science like we've never seen before.

Cloud

Yes but what is "human nature"? What do we mean by that? How does it differ from other animals?
I think it's moot to talk about changing human nature if we don't know what it is to begin with.
We can't even say if it stays the same or changes...

ClayTheScribe

I personally don't believe in "human nature" or at least that it's a permanent thing. I don't think there's anything about our minds, brains or bodies that are inherit or will always be true over the course of our evolution. I'm not sure we will always crave or suffer. at least not how we perceive now. Yes there MAY always be beings in the universe who suffer, but that doesn't necessarily mean any of them will be human. And of course I could wrong, but I find it suspicious when people say stuff is for certain and forever about a species when they only have a few hundred thousand years of development to base that off of. I find when people say "it's human nature" it's most always often related to something negative about us. Tragedies happen and there are people to come in an exploit it. "Well that's human nature." Is it? Is that our natural state to hurt one another? Then how are so many people able to defy that on a daily basis? Is fear, hatred, greed, envy, lust, anger, violence part of "human nature" when Buddhist masters tell us fear in its many forms are illusory, manifestations of the mind and of living in this three-dimensional reality, pulled between the light and the dark. Why do we assume we'll never manage or overcome this tug-of-war between the light and the dark? I realize some of this questions basic thinking in Buddhism, but the Buddha laid out that his teachings are not solid beliefs set in stone that never change and encouraged everyone to question everything, including what he says. Could it be even enlightened beings today and in the past 2,500 years only know and realize a fraction of what enlightened beings 500,000 years from now will know and realize?

RebeccaS

I think it just means the nature of the ego.

zenff

The closest thing to a description of “human nature” from a Buddhist perspective – as far as I know – is one based on the “three characteristics”. Human nature is impermanent, not ultimately satisfactory and not-self.
All we are is dust in the wind.

Another Buddhist thing to say is that we all have Buddha-nature. What that means is open to debate.
Maybe it just means we have it in us to come to the realization of the fact that all we are is dust in the wind.

how

@ClayTheScribe
There are a lot of suppositions with your post that I think are questionable.
Yes everything changes but you are assuming that when talking about human nature, that means changing for the better when it might be the reverse, or back & forth, or that it's change is in terms of kalpas.

Also, while human nature is often a term socially used to refer to inherently negative traits, in the Buddhist realms of existence, the human realm where human nature reigns is considered the most fortuitous existence possible to realize the Dharma.

As a side note...
While not being identical, I tend to use the term "the human condition" in place of "human nature" because it better allows for the change we experience through our various practises.
As a description though of what human nature is, I like RebeccaS...as Ego.

music

Cloud said:

Yes but what is "human nature"? What do we mean by that? How does it differ from other animals?
I think it's moot to talk about changing human nature if we don't know what it is to begin with.
We can't even say if it stays the same or changes...

In my experience, there is only human behavior which changes according to circumstances.

Cloud

music said:

Cloud said:

Yes but what is "human nature"? What do we mean by that? How does it differ from other animals?
I think it's moot to talk about changing human nature if we don't know what it is to begin with.
We can't even say if it stays the same or changes...

In my experience, there is only human behavior which changes according to circumstances.

Which wouldn't be any specific nature at all.

RebeccaS

It doesn't differ from animals, not really. It's a little more complex because our brains are different, but it's pretty much the same thing. Human nature is doing what you need to do to survive, because you have a brain that evolved from an animal brain, and some of those animal functions stay in use.

It's interesting, every part of your brain represents some stage of the evolution of humanity. What separates us from animals is the pre-frontal cortex.

So when we say "human nature" we're referring to actions that are brought about by that animal part of the brain. It's a reminder that we're just animals in a way. Some are more evolved than others, definitely, but that's essentially what it means.