Not sure what to do with this...

Mountains

Here's the situation: I live out in the country. My house shares a common driveway off the main road with three other households. One of the four of us is (literally) a hermit whom nobody ever sees or talks to, by his choice. The other three households have always been on best of terms, and we all share - or at least have up to this point - similar viewpoints on most things. I *know* they share mine and our other neighbors' political viewpoints, as we often trade Facebook posts, emails, etc on political topics.

In every election cycle in the past ten years since I've lived there, we've obtained and put up campaign signs along the road. Every single one. The neighbors closest to the road have always been supportive, and have in the past even procured the signs.

So with the general election approaching, I procured four yard signs for the four big candidates in our area and put them up in the same spot we've always put signs up before. A day later I noticed they were gone. When I got home, I had a terse email from the neighbor near the road saying "We removed the signs on the road as we do not want political signs in front of the house. We will leave them in front of the garage tomorrow if you want to come by to pick them up."

I wasn't sure how to respond, so I didn't for about two weeks (I've learned!). Frankly, it made me a little upset, since as I said in my eventual reply, "Since we've had signs out there for previous elections I figured it wouldn't be a problem. Can I know why you don't want political signs out there this time??

The answer I got was, "The concern with political signs at the end of the driveway is risk of vandalism or other retaliation from individuals opposed to the promoted candidates. Our house is most closely associated with those signs and is at greatest risk. Since the effect of roadside political signs is likely to be very small in this location, the risk of property damage outweighed their benefit.

For example, with the amount of hunting traffic on the road, the chance of some Obama-hating gun nut taking shots in our direction is too great to have signs inviting that behavior out there. Based on conversations I’ve had, and overheard, this is not a far-fetched concern in today’s political climate."

I was utterly stumped and angered. On several levels this really gets under my skin. First, my free speech rights are trumped by his fear? Second, is there any evidence that *any* of this kind of "gun nut" violence or vandalism *at all* (answer: none whatsoever). Third, I know I'm not going to change any hard right winger's vote with the signs. That's not the point (and he knows that).

My reply was "I'm very disappointed. I'll come get the signs and put them elsewhere."

I guess what gets me the most is how sad I feel for people who choose to live in such abject fear, especially fear of our neighbors. We're in a rural, mostly conservative area. That has *never*, not even once, to my knowledge ever caused even the slightest bit of friction between anyone in the area. We have wonderful neighbors even if we don't necessarily agree on every topic. Just like neighbors everywhere. By choosing to submit to their own unjustified fears, they've said (in so many words) that they don't trust the people who live around them. I guess I just can't live like that.

I haven't decided where to put the signs, but I *will* be putting them up in plain view someplace not too far from our respective houses.

I know this is all ego stuff (don't even bother with those replies please).

Dakini

idk, Mountains, it's getting weird out there. It seems like there's a growing Republican fringe that's more into guns than before, is more vocal, and is...kinda scary. You could email your neighbors to ask if there had been an incident in the past that lead them to adopt this new position, and if so, you're sorry, or something. Who knows? They may have good reason for how they feel.

vinlyn

Actually, I know how you feel, Mountains. I've been wanting to get an Obama bumper sticker, but I live in Colorado Springs, which is a very Republican town. And the thought of vandalism to my car has occurred to me...although I am probably worried over nothing.

One question -- did you put the signs on your property?

RebeccaS

That kind of thing really happens? Vandalism etc?

Cinorjer

Put them on your property, where you have the legal right. Your first amendment rights do not give you the right to place your signs on public property or someone else's property.

Then don't get upset about your neighbors. They were polite enough to let you know why they did this and didn't just take them and dump the signs somewhere.

Mountains

The signs were on the road right of way which happens to be in front of this neighbor's house. The four households share a driveway via deeded access rights that is technically on the neighbor in question's property. But the signs were along side a public road, 100 yards or more from their house.

They better not have dumped the signs. I paid for them!

Cloud

Granted I just woke up so I'm tired, but it seems to me that it's really that neighbor's concern. If they're afraid for themselves or their property, then say okay pal I understand, it's okay... it's your house, your right to be as protective as you want of your personal property, I'll just put the signs somewhere else.

It may not make sense, for this to happen all the sudden, but just look at it from that angle, that way you can remain cordial with that neighbor instead of being angry at them for being fearful.

Mountains

@RebeccaS - I'm sure it has happened somewhere, sometime. I've *never* heard of such a thing happening in our area, ever. Like I said, I find it profoundly sad that people choose to live their lives in such abject, unfounded fear of their neighbors. There hasn't been a crime worse than a kid bashing a mail box from a moving car in our area for as long as anyone can remember (literally). Not only do I not lock my house or car, I don't even carry a house key, and I wouldn't know where to start looking for one (if I even have one..). That's the kind of place we live in.

Cinorjer

Well, OK, there are two ways to go about this. If you have a legal right to put the signs there, then you can let them know that and demand the signs be replaced. You never actually say if you have a legal right to put them there. Many county.township/etc laws restrict what signs you can put on public right of way land, etc. So do you have the legal right to put the signs there, or not?

Why don't you put them on your own property? That would show who you support.

Today's climate is not like the past. There are angry, violent people with a political cause out there that the news is happy to tell us about. If the signs where you put them can be mistaken for belonging to your neighbor, then don't they have a valid complaint?

Cloud

It could also be that this neighbor has changed their political views for whatever reason and don't support one or more of the candidates (and so don't want the signs up near their home). Their given reason could be a masquerade, if it's as unlikely a scenario as you think that there'd be any kind of blow-back or violence from having them up in that location.

Sile

My husband believes we are more divided now, as a nation, than we have been at any time since the Civil War.

I'm curious about you neighbor's phrase, "...or other retaliation." Maybe they do really fear a stray bullet (like, a .22 aimed at the sign).

OneLifeForm

I would be embarassed to have any of the candidates signs in my yard.

It is all ego garbage and they are all psychopaths. (Has what I just typed transcended ignorance? Not at all hehehe those are just my beliefs)

You should watch this movie.. my neighbor recommended it to me.



It is called The Shock Doctrine.

My great uncle is portrayed all throughout the movie and he really doesn't come off in a good light.

I won't say who he is as that is also extremely embarassing.

sndymorn

RebeccaS said:

That kind of thing really happens? Vandalism etc?

Fear happens, vandalism not so much.

Dakini

Cinorjer said:

Today's climate is not like the past. There are angry, violent people with a political cause out there that the news is happy to tell us about. If the signs where you put them can be mistaken for belonging to your neighbor, then don't they have a valid complaint?

I agree with this. Wouldn't you be concerned for your neighbor, if he could be in harm's way? have you communicated with him to find out if there has been an incident? And just because there haven't been any in the past doesn't mean there won't be a first time. Who knows, maybe he's changed his political affiliation.

In any case, this would be a good opportunity to practice compassion for the neighbor, and non-attachment to posting your political allegiance in public view.

zombiegirl

This whole post has got me thinking... What is the point behind even posting signs anyways? It's not like a sign is going to change anyone's mind... Even if everyone else on the block had a Romney sign, I sure wouldn't change my vote.

Is there anything at all to be gained by having a political sign posted? I understand for smaller elections it actually IS a free way of advertising, but at the presidential level? I find it hard to believe it makes any difference at all...

All I know is that when I go back home and see all of those Pro-Romney signs, I make a mental note not to be too touchy-feely with my girlfriend (like holding hands or whatever) just because I really am concerned about physical retaliation. Am I being paranoid? Maybe, maybe not. I sure wouldn't be the first gay hate crime... But that is the only difference I can think of that a political sign has ever made in my life.

Beej

I am a political dissident. That's why I wouldn't want the signs on my lawn. As for your neighbor, I would do your best to understand that they don't want it for similar reasons that you do want it. They don't want to advertise their opinions. You do. (the other side of the same coin, so to speak) Even if they gave you a fear based response to your inquiry, it might just come down to them not wanting to assert themselves that way. I know that people say that the only way that democracy works is if everyone is invested in it, but based on the state of our current situation I'd have a hard time saying that democracy works at all. We had a record voting turnout in the last election, yet people are as miffed as ever. Chosing the lesser of two evils isn't an answer for these problems, its something that merely perpetuates a system that isn't really working. I do not have a solution that fits otherwise, but I will never be pressured into doing something that I see as faulty just because someone else tells me it's my duty. My duty is to live and then die. Shouldering up to a political candidate isn't ever going to make any of that easier.

Sile

Well, what it really comes down to is a disagreement over how to use shared space. Both neighbors have a right to discuss its use; even if posting political signs is considered totally valid, or telling someone to not post a sign is considered totally invalid, each neighbor has an equal right to his/her opinion on how to use the space.

Given that the space has been peaceably used for sign-posting in the past, it's fair to ask why there's been a change in one neighbor's view, especially since it's not an issue of competing signage--there's nothing about neighbor A posting a sign that prevents neighbor B from posting a contrasting sign (in fact, that would be the most honorable way of handling it, imho). But it doesn't seem neighbor B really has a strong opinion; rather, he's trying to prevent neighbor A from airing his. That's a little hard to justify without further explanation.

vinlyn

zombiegirl said:

This whole post has got me thinking... What is the point behind even posting signs anyways? It's not like a sign is going to change anyone's mind... Even if everyone else on the block had a Romney sign, I sure wouldn't change my vote.

Is there anything at all to be gained by having a political sign posted? I understand for smaller elections it actually IS a free way of advertising, but at the presidential level? I find it hard to believe it makes any difference at all...

All I know is that when I go back home and see all of those Pro-Romney signs, I make a mental note not to be too touchy-feely with my girlfriend (like holding hands or whatever) just because I really am concerned about physical retaliation. Am I being paranoid? Maybe, maybe not. I sure wouldn't be the first gay hate crime... But that is the only difference I can think of that a political sign has ever made in my life.

Here in Colorado Springs, I just put a bumper sticker on my car today for the purpose of reminding this GOP bastion that everyone here is not a Republican, and they need to get over themselves a little bit.

Telly03

Hmm I wonder if there are any Nixon bumper stickers still around.

coz

well im gonna go way out on a limb here
i get it that everyone has there own opinion and thats cool,
but in any situation as we look at it with our refuge in the dharma
we can see every time, that peace will always be the best way ,
dont let others fears get you down, but let us respect that people are still attached
to there fears and let us not help thoes fears grow let us be the catalist for a greater
peace
namaste to all
Coz