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Yes, the flip side is that the yogacara is often misunderstood as eternalism or hinduism. There is a movement to unify them and have harmony called the Rime movement.
"Rimé is not a way of uniting different Schools and lineages by emphasizing their similarities. It is basically an appreciation of their differences and an acknowledgement of the importance of having this variety for the benefit of practitioners with different needs. Therefore the Rimé teachers always take great care that the teachings and practices of the different Schools and lineages and their unique styles do not become confused with one another." (Wikipedia)
Apparently it's not a movement to unify after all, but find harmony yes...
Loads of stuff, but it's the stuff you can find in any religion. Certain groups getting nvolved in politics, fundamentalism, holier than thou attitudes... But that isn't Buddhism, that's just people
Nothing wrong with Buddhism, its what people do in the name of Buddhism, so much crap, plentiful monks included!. As well some entire schools, fighting over recognition, SIGH!!
If the Buddha was not enlightened, he'd be coughing blood.
What I dislike about Buddhism are the errant Rangtong-ers who delude people with their one-sided teachings of emptiness which boils down to this: there is nothing which is unconditioned (asankhata). (Perish the thought that the essence (sabhâva) of nirvana is described as being unconditioned.)
When Rangtong-ers read passages like the following
"Monks, there are these three condition-marks of that which is conditioned (sankhata). What three? Its genesis (uppada) is apparent, its passing away is apparent, its changeability while it persists is apparent. These are the three condition-marks (sankhatalakkhan)" (A.i.151, III, 5, § 47).
they firmly believe this is all the Buddha taught—he never taught nirvana which is unconditioned!
These poor puthujjanas do not understand the other emptiness. This emptiness refers to ultimate reality which is empty of conditionality.
A few compassionate words from Dolpopa's The Prayer That Unites the Vajra Word Knots:
"May they [the Conquerors] have pity on those who hold that the whole of the Buddha's teaching on emptiness concerned self-emptiness alone and hold them in their compassion."
As soon as I find something I dislike about Buddhism my mind firmly and swiftly categorises it as "malinterpretation" or "outside Real Buddhism". Accredited Buddhist Lunacy is met with panic and total denial.
"The Jathika Hela Urumaya (Sinhala: ජාතික හෙළ උරුමය, often approximated in English as National Heritage Party) is a political party in Sri Lanka which is led by Buddhist monks"
... I find my mind just blanks out and when I come to again I am reading sutta ni pata.
So no there is nothing in My Buddhism that I dislike.
Yeah Dudes/Dudettes Its mine. You better believe it. /Victor
These poor puthujjanas do not understand the other emptiness. This emptiness refers to ultimate reality which is empty of conditionality.
I agree, but it's not another emptiness. It's the same emptiness of the enlightened and unenlightened alike. And it's only a concept.
There is a kind of misguided machismo in forcing oneself and others to accept that they are not in heaven. See Puddleglum's debate with the witch in The Silver Chair by C.S. Lewis.
'Lewis is perhaps using Puddleglum to give a somewhat existential statement of faith when he writes, "Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all of those things—trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones."[6]'
Also the Dwarves in The Last Battle, who can only taste muddy water when given wine, because they are so afraid of being deceived that they have become nihilists.
So I guess that's what I dislike about Buddhism - negativity posing as realism.
I dislike the idea that some Buddhist traditions are superior or inferior to other Buddhist traditions. But that really isn't part of Buddhism. It's a creation of unenlightened Buddhist practitioners! It seems that most of what people don't like about Buddhism, isn't actually part of Buddhism but rather simply part of unenlightened people's ideas about Buddhism.
I agree, but it's not another emptiness. It's the same emptiness of the enlightened and unenlightened alike. And it's only a concept.
It is one thing to say that all things (finite things) are the lack or emptiness of essence (svabhava). That is one kind of emptiness, a privation.
On the other hand, when we look at ultimate reality, which is unconditioned, it is empty of the emptiness of essence (svabhava-shunya). This is what the Shentong understands, but not so with the Rangtong who are caught up in the first kind of emptiness which is privation. They are using the cage of the five skandha trying to find the bird of the unconditioned. When they can't find it they call their process non-findingness or emptiness with negative implication. They commit a grave error.
Take the example of Zen's empty mind/wu-shin. It doesn't mean there is no mind. That is just nutty. It refers to mind that is empty of defilements. This is the true mind. There really is a clear light mind, a Buddha Mind, etc. But realizing this is very difficult. It can't be done by people who cling, tenaciously, to the illusory world, including their imagination, which is devoid of essence (svabhava-shunya).
It is one thing to say that all things (finite things) are the lack or emptiness of essence (svabhava). That is one kind of emptiness, a privation.
Yes. What I meant was that your post seemed to be worded in such a way as to suggest two worlds, relative and ultimate, when these are just discriminations (as I'm sure you'd agree). I was writing to clarify for others, rather than disagreeing with the content of your post.
Taiyaki: First let me say, Zen's no-mind (C., wu-shin/wuxin; J., mushin) doesn't mean to be without a mind or to be absent minded!
The 18 dhatus are related to the five skandha. no-mind is not. The 18 Dhatus are conditioned, no-mind is not. What is called no-mind is nothing other than a mind free from deluded thought. This should be obvious if you have read the treatise On No-Mind attributed to Bodhidharma.
Yes. What I meant was that your post seemed to be worded in such a way as to suggest two worlds, relative and ultimate, when these are just discriminations (as I'm sure you'd agree). I was writing to clarify for others, rather than disagreeing with the content of your post.
There is actually only one true world. The world of ultimate reality. This world (our world) is an illusion. It doesn't really exist although we would like to believe otherwise. This is the world of samsara.
Emptiness, as privation, is telling us about our samsaric everyday world: it lacks essence. There is nothing actually real about it, yet we cling to it. The world of the Buddhas is empty of the empty world of samsara. It is the one true world. Hence:
"In emptiness there is no material shape, no feeling, no perception, no habitual tendencies, no consciousness. There are no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. There is no seeing, no hearing, no smelling, no tasting, no touching, no imagining. There is nothing seen, nor heard, nor smelled, nor tasted, nor touched, nor imagined" (Heart Sutra).
Taiyaki: First let me say, Zen's no-mind (C., wu-shin/wuxin; J., mushin) doesn't mean to be without a mind or to be absent minded!
The 18 dhatus are related to the five skandha. no-mind is not. The 18 Dhatus are conditioned, no-mind is not. What is called no-mind is nothing other than a mind free from deluded thought. This should be obvious if you have read the treatise On No-Mind attributed to Bodhidharma.
Here is the problem.
You are making mind free from deluded thought into a thing.
Mind free from deluded thought is in fact the 18 dhatus in activity, which is no mind.
no center, no edge, no source. interdependent arisings, utterly unestablished activity.
Hmm not so much a problem with Buddhism as a problem with some (an overwhelming minority to be sure) of the adherents getting uppity. Sometimes I can't mention that I smoked a cigarette or that I liked a song or that I love a cold beer after a hard day working without someone belittling me and saying how bad all of that stuff is and how it goes against the precepts, etc. Sometimes I feel like bopping them on the forehead because they won't give it a rest. I am not trying to get anyone else to smoke or anything, so they have no right in trying their darnedest to make me feel like shit because I do. I honestly think they view it as sub-human. And yes it occasionally happens on this site.
If one makes something other than the 18 dhatus, then one is reifying awareness as a source or center.
That is not the teaching of No-Mind which is found in the Treatise on No-Mind, attributed to Bodhidharma which has been translated by Urs App.
No-Mind, also True Mind transcends the 18 dhatus, all of which, by implication belong to the demon Mara. If one is stuck in the 18 dhatus, they are far from the Buddha's path.
Okay...I was going to avoid the temptation, but...I dislike it when modern Buddhists use "unskillful" as a snarky verbal weapon. As in, "What you just said was unskillful."
It's like, just get off the horse, accept the mud, and say, "You suck and I'm right." I'd take that any day over what they're really saying, which is "You suck, I'm right, and please note the glorious dharma-ness of my woo."
Imho using "unskillful" as this weapon is unskillful
However, I fully acknowledge that pointing that out may also be unskillful.
Okay...I was going to avoid the temptation, but...I dislike it when modern Buddhists use "unskillful" as a snarky verbal weapon. As in, "What you just said was unskillful."
It's like, just get off the horse, accept the mud, and say, "You suck and I'm right." I'd take that any day over what they're really saying, which is "You suck, I'm right, and please note the glorious dharma-ness of my woo."
Imho using "unskillful" as this weapon is unskillful
However, I fully acknowledge that pointing that out may also be unskillful.
Comments
Here we go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimé_movement
Apparently it's not a movement to unify after all, but find harmony yes...
As well some entire schools, fighting over recognition, SIGH!!
If the Buddha was not enlightened, he'd be coughing blood.
Cheers, cough cough.....
When Rangtong-ers read passages like the following they firmly believe this is all the Buddha taught—he never taught nirvana which is unconditioned!
These poor puthujjanas do not understand the other emptiness. This emptiness refers to ultimate reality which is empty of conditionality.
A few compassionate words from Dolpopa's The Prayer That Unites the Vajra Word Knots:
"May they [the Conquerors] have pity on those who hold that the whole of the
Buddha's teaching on emptiness concerned self-emptiness alone
and hold them in their compassion."
have no doubts
As soon as I find something I dislike about Buddhism my mind firmly and swiftly categorises it as "malinterpretation" or "outside Real Buddhism". Accredited Buddhist Lunacy is met with panic and total denial.
Take the Buddhist National Party as an Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jathika_Hela_Urumaya. After reading the end of the first line...
"The Jathika Hela Urumaya (Sinhala: ජාතික හෙළ උරුමය, often approximated in English as National Heritage Party) is a political party in Sri Lanka which is led by Buddhist monks"
... I find my mind just blanks out and when I come to again I am reading sutta ni pata.
So no there is nothing in My Buddhism that I dislike.
Yeah Dudes/Dudettes Its mine. You better believe it.
/Victor
There is a kind of misguided machismo in forcing oneself and others to accept that they are not in heaven. See Puddleglum's debate with the witch in The Silver Chair by C.S. Lewis.
'Lewis is perhaps using Puddleglum to give a somewhat existential statement of faith when he writes, "Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all of those things—trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones."[6]'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puddleglum
Also the Dwarves in The Last Battle, who can only taste muddy water when given wine, because they are so afraid of being deceived that they have become nihilists.
So I guess that's what I dislike about Buddhism - negativity posing as realism.
On the other hand, when we look at ultimate reality, which is unconditioned, it is empty of the emptiness of essence (svabhava-shunya). This is what the Shentong understands, but not so with the Rangtong who are caught up in the first kind of emptiness which is privation. They are using the cage of the five skandha trying to find the bird of the unconditioned. When they can't find it they call their process non-findingness or emptiness with negative implication. They commit a grave error.
Take the example of Zen's empty mind/wu-shin. It doesn't mean there is no mind. That is just nutty. It refers to mind that is empty of defilements. This is the true mind. There really is a clear light mind, a Buddha Mind, etc. But realizing this is very difficult. It can't be done by people who cling, tenaciously, to the illusory world, including their imagination, which is devoid of essence (svabhava-shunya).
Its no mind because it is unestablished.
The former one mind is clinging to an essence.
Whereas no mind is seeing that there is no essence but multiplicity as suchness.
The 18 dhatus are related to the five skandha. no-mind is not. The 18 Dhatus are conditioned, no-mind is not. What is called no-mind is nothing other than a mind free from deluded thought. This should be obvious if you have read the treatise On No-Mind attributed to Bodhidharma.
Emptiness, as privation, is telling us about our samsaric everyday world: it lacks essence. There is nothing actually real about it, yet we cling to it. The world of the Buddhas is empty of the empty world of samsara. It is the one true world. Hence:
But what you've just said is easy to misunderstand.
You are making mind free from deluded thought into a thing.
Mind free from deluded thought is in fact the 18 dhatus in activity, which is no mind.
no center, no edge, no source. interdependent arisings, utterly unestablished activity.
Unestablished activity - who honestly didn't know that? It's obvious.
You haven't found anything.
(I'm not saying you don't know that, just saying)
If one makes something other than the 18 dhatus, then one is reifying awareness as a source or center.
If one sees the 18 dhatus as the activity of emptiness, then no mind makes absolute sense.
Then no absolute ground, center, or suchness is reifyed into a thing.
Do not set up another ground after negating all grounds.
This is directed towards songhill.
Interesting thread though.
No-Mind, also True Mind transcends the 18 dhatus, all of which, by implication belong to the demon Mara. If one is stuck in the 18 dhatus, they are far from the Buddha's path.
It's like, just get off the horse, accept the mud, and say, "You suck and I'm right." I'd take that any day over what they're really saying, which is "You suck, I'm right, and please note the glorious dharma-ness of my woo."
Imho using "unskillful" as this weapon is unskillful
However, I fully acknowledge that pointing that out may also be unskillful.