Meditation and Awakening (practice and satori)

tmottes

This morning I was listening to a podcast and I heard something I liked and wanted to share here. I paused the podcast and returned to the beginning of where I thought it would make sense to start the transcription (don't want to take this too far out of context). I finished transcribing it from the audio file and then continued to listen to the last bit of the talk (not transcribed here as it would have made no sense). It was during this last portion of the talk that I had an incredibly important personal moment. It won't be significant to you guys, but it was intense enough to just make me start crying immediately. I was filled with an overwhelming sense of....?? Anyway, it basically told me that I was doing exactly what I needed to be doing. So without further ado, here is a transcription of an excerpt from the podcast. Enjoy.

P.S. She is Japanese and there was a slight language barrier. At times it was a bit hard to transcribe, so let me know if you need any explanations or clarifications. Also if you are interested in listening to the whole podcast (five 1hr talks), I can probably dig it up online for you.

"We have to find a way in our practice life, all of us. How to keep this alive…how to keep practice alive in us. And then I am coming back to Oshiyama's talk, which i feel is quite remarkable. So he starts with that when you seriously practice shikantaza, you will kind of naturally hit a wall, someday. Maybe on the very first day, maybe in ten years later. Because you are never completely satisfied with your practice. It never feels like having a great meal, and you are completely satisfied and full. There is always something missing. So he titled his talk "to you who are still dissatisfied with your zazen". And then he said and it was his was his own experience. One of his teachers was really quite out of the box zen master. Very charismatic, very wild. Thats the guy who said zazen is good for nothing. Just because he was so charismatic, he attracted all these young men to practice with him and then there were many after a while, who were very dissatisfied with just sitting. They had the feeling they were wasting their life here: becoming a monk and just sit. But he made a strong point because his statements are zen was good for absolutely nothing. zazen was good for absolutely nothing. To point at true zazen is beyond gain and beyond satori. Because after a while you go off and think, I should do this really hardcore zen and then I will have my breakthrough as the final fix. That's all ideas. I admit it was even my idea. But how can we, and there is again this beyond -wisdom beyond wisdom- how can we move beyond all this ideas and still be satisfied with our practice. Especially through this, be satisfied with our practice. This is not so much a question for people who come once in a while to a sesshin and see this as a kind of interesting, wild experience: I went to a sesshin. But when you make a commitment to actually live this life. And there is an actual transition in practice happening when you feel for the first time, your sesshin is also your life. You live in your sesshin. There is not so much distinction anymore as, I am going to sesshin and my life is over there. When this merges and you feel this is just the way I live. Then it naturally arises the question, what do I do here. Should I look for a different practice which is maybe more challenging. Maybe less challenging. But then we have to really go deeply into this again. What meant Dogen, by just sitting. What meant honshi, by just sitting. Is the just sitting really just sitting? Or does it include all awakenings, awakening from distractions, from confusions, awakening from dullness and from fatigue. But then it also means awakening a billion times. Billions of moments. Many many zazen periods. And this awakening over and over agains, billions of times: this is true shikantaza. How Uchiyama and I think how Dogen would describe it. Thats meant by dropping body and mind. Billions of times, dropping body and mind. And out of this concept naturally arises… billions of time? Thats kind of boring. Over and over and over and over and over again, isn't there a way-I have heard about it- when you do it one time, really good. Then it's ok. So we look for this. Dropping body and mind, one time really thoroughly. Wouldn't that be great? But then Uchiyama has a great example, he says: its the same as you have a baby… and you tell the baby, as long as you live you breath in and you breath out. Billions of billions of times. And then the baby says, No… isn't there a better way to do this. Can I just take one really big breath and then everything is good? Some people believe that practice is indeed endless, but that awakening happens only once and then you are awake forever-all the time and ever. Such a person does not hear the buddha-dharma, does not know the buddha-dharma, and has never met the buddha-dharma. And thats why Sawaki repeated over and over again, satori has no beginning and practice has no end. Satori has no beginning and practice has no end. This is the spirit of our practice."

-Beate Stolte
Upaya Zen Center
Dharma Podcast - Exploring wisdom beyond wisdom (31JAN2011)

EDIT:
The poem that spurred on this talk:

Do you have a body?
Don't sit on the porch.
Go out and walk in the rain.

Songhill

Some background.

“The spirit of the new Kamakura schools is often summarized by the expression "selective" (senjaku) Buddhism. This term, taken especially from Pure Land theology, refers first to the selection from a multiplicity of spiritual exercises (shogyô) of one practice for exclusive cultivation (senju). In Pure Land itself, of course, this practice was the recitation of Amitabha's name (nenbutsu); for Nichiren, it was "discerning the mind" (kanjin), understood now in its esoteric sense as the recitation of the title of the Lotus Sutra (daimoku). For Dogen, it was just sitting. In one obvious sense the selection can be seen as a simplification of Buddhism and a reduction of its practice to a single, uncomplicated exercise accessible to all” (Carl Bielefeldt, Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation, p. 165). (Emphasis added.)

tmottes

Songhill said:

Some background.

“The spirit of the new Kamakura schools is often summarized by the expression "selective" (senjaku) Buddhism. This term, taken especially from Pure Land theology, refers first to the selection from a multiplicity of spiritual exercises (shogyô) of one practice for exclusive cultivation (senju). In Pure Land itself, of course, this practice was the recitation of Amitabha's name (nenbutsu); for Nichiren, it was "discerning the mind" (kanjin), understood now in its esoteric sense as the recitation of the title of the Lotus Sutra (daimoku). For Dogen, it was just sitting. In one obvious sense the selection can be seen as a simplification of Buddhism and a reduction of its practice to a single, uncomplicated exercise accessible to all” (Carl Bielefeldt, Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation, p. 165). (Emphasis added.)

Could you please add more explanation to your post?

Songhill

Taking Bielefeldt one step further, these forms of Buddhism also risk becoming dangerous oversimplifications of authentic Dharma—even being "counterfeit Dharma" (pratirupakadharma).

tmottes

So it wasn't background, it was a criticism (or risk of becoming a criticism) about the techniques that were mentioned in the talk? Lets call a spade a spade. Not everybody is on the same path. We all see it through personal and cultural glasses.

I don't want this post to spiral into a debate about what flavour of buddhism is right or wrong. I acknowledge your warning and encourage others to make note: use critical thinking and experience to guide your practice. Lets leave it at that.

Vastmind

Gratitude for that teaching. I took alot away from it.
The baby analogy was great, and reminded me of a Zen Master teaching
on nature, i saw here on NB one time. The real denominator is
that damn breath, is'nt it?

We talk alot about suttas/sutras, understandings, but I do
appreciate the Zen approach of breaking it down
the common denominator, and just practicing.

jessie70

"Satori has no beginning and practice has no end. This is the spirit of our practice."

this is great.

tmottes

@Vastminds The baby analogy was one of the biggest reasons I wanted to share it. The rest, including what @cwexl quoted was bonus

jessie70

Loved it all - thanks for sharing. I re-wrote the entire thing in my journal :-)

tmottes

I am glad! :vimp: