Converting to Judaism or Sikhism?

DaftChris

I really like Buddhism. I think it's a great religion/spiritual/philosophical path and it has helped me a great deal since I began researching it; and I plan on continuing to look into and practicing the Vajarayana/Tibetan branch.

However, while I like Buddhism, I feel as if there is a missing half. Kind of like peanut butter without jelly. I feel that, to me, there needs to be a corresponding path adjacent to my Buddhism. After researching, I thing I've found a couple that could work: Judaism or Sikhism.

Judaism because it is the closest to how I view "God" (not necessarily literal) and the afterlife (more like states of being). Plus the history and culture is wonderful. If I converted to this religion, I would join the reformed branch; so my homosexuality will not be an issue. However, there are those who say that unless you are born into it, you are not a true Jew. Plus there is the anti-Semitism.

Sikhism because it holds similar views of God and the afterlife, plus they express equality and protection to all of God's creation; regardless of religion, culture, race and gender. However, while homosexuality is NOT condemned (or even mentioned) in their holy book, many people are still quite homophobic. Mainly because the religion originated in India, which is very conservative.

I know that I don't "need to" have another path to follow, but this is my journey and I feel it will help me in one way or another.

Does anyone know of either religions conversion precess? Does anyone know of any other details of either?

Jeffrey

Osho said that Buddhism cleans the house but that leaves an empty house. He said that other religions were about putting something in the house of the divine joy or whatever (I made that up).

Jason

I don't know anything about the religious conversion process of either, but I do remember reading a book called God Is a Verb: Kabbalah and the Practice of Mystical Judaism by David Cooper and really liking it. If you're interested in Judaism, especially Jewish mysticism, you might find it worth reading too.

Kundo

Namaste,

As Jew myself, I can only tell you what I've seen and experienced with conversions (I'm a "born Jew" myself so never converted). There is the stereotypical "knock three times" view people hold on conversion which, as an Orthodox Jew, I've never seen enacted. Usually, you will approach a Rabbi and have a discussion on WHY you want to convert. A lot of people who convert if they're marrying a Jew will be grilled and may find it hard to convince a Rabbi because if they have no intention of living as a Jew then the Rabbi will be dubious as to performing the conversion. Conversion is not a quick progress. Being a Jew is more than going to Synagogue Friday nights and Saturdays, not eating bacon and taking Yom Kippur off work to atone for your sins. The Rabbi will guide you into a new way of life and seeing the world. Many people have started the process and then when they get to the time to choose to attend the Beit Din (Jewish Law Court) and do their final process (answer the four questions from three Rabbis), they realise that they really AREN'T ready or don't want to make the final step - and that's fine too. Conversion is a learning process for everyone involved.

The anti-Semitism bit, well that's been around as long as Jews have (around 5000 years). I've been the target of it in my local area, my Synagogue has been defaced, attacked with all sorts of objects and was the main finishing point intended by the latest rioters in Sydney over "that" movie. But if I live in fear of being attacked, then I really won't be living. I've had to quit jobs over anti Semitism, fight for my rights as a person to have Yom Kippur off work (which is legally protected in Australia btw) but what can I do? If I let that stop me from being the best person I can be, I not only give my daughter a bad example and teach her to be ashamed of being a Jew, I also insult the memory of 6 million Jews who died at the hands of Hitler (14 of them being my direct family members). They died for nothing then.

Anyway, I didn't mean to get on my soapbox, apologies if that's how it's come off. But at the end of the day, if you are seriously interested in conversion, approach a Rabbi and talk about it. Otherwise I would recommend you read a book called "Jewish By Choice" or "Living a Jewish Life" both are really good bookd. I'll get the author's names and edit this post for you.

In metta,
Raven

PrairieGhost

Just reading the open, non-sectarian, thoughtful responses.

I like this forum.

sndymorn

Look to the story of Ruth for inspiration on Jewish conversion. Though she was not "born into it" she is an important figure and quite revered.

lobster

What jelly are you currently missing? In other words what do you feel these might provide?

Sile

I find Sikhism really impressive. My dad went to school with a lot of Sikh kids. My impression is of an environment that is quite progressive, philosophically rich, warm, and inviting. They maintain a view of God that is similar to that in Judaism, Christianity and Islam, in my experience, and place strong emphasis on social justice.

This is sort of an aside, but I just watched the movie "Waterborne" recently, and the protagonist is a Sikh; some nice sights and sounds from the Sikh world there.

Edit: Should probably add that it's a sort of apocalyptic thriller But not a slasher - more about the humans condition.

DaftChris

@lobster

Of all religions I've researched, these two seem like they are the most spiritually fulfilling and compatible with Buddhism.

They both have a more philosophical notion of God as well as the afterlife (more like states of beings than absolutely literal).

lobster

Oh, I understand now, you are a dabbler. In which case one dabble is as good as another. Become a Jewish Sikh and practice Buddhism. Throw in a little [another dabble] for balance, think of it as sprinkles . . .
I wish you every success. You have a long way to go.

I will now return to my mish mash practice . . .

PrairieGhost

Hi, Lobster:

I said:

Just reading the open, non-sectarian, thoughtful responses.

Citta

Jason said:

I don't know anything about the religious conversion process of either, but I do remember reading a book called God Is a Verb: Kabbalah and the Practice of Mystical Judaism by David Cooper and really liking it. If you're interested in Judaism, especially Jewish mysticism, you might find it worth reading too.

Its not only God that is a verb is it ?
We are verbs too. Not things. We and our karma and karma vipaka and skandhas are all verbs not nouns.
I fully appreciate the point the OP is making.
Seeing the Trikaya in terms of a personal relationship is a perfectly viable option for some. Perhaps for many.

lobster

To put this in context. Most of myself included, are dabblers. We do not want spiritual change, we want stimulation, entertainment, general purpose well being and so on. That may be the nature of where we are. However we can once we acknowledge what we are really like, make progress to the truth that is expressed through the variety of paths. We of course may not want or require truth; dabbling suffices.

DairyLama

DaftChris said:

@lobster
Of all religions I've researched, these two seem like they are the most spiritually fulfilling and compatible with Buddhism.

Why not explore these faiths, talk to people who are involved, attend events, see how you feel?

Beej

I feel that peanut butter is plenty good enough. Seriously, I love that stuff.

caz

Judaism and Sikhism will not free you from suffering or eliminate the causes of suffering.

RebeccaS

caz said:

Judaism and Sikhism will not free you from suffering or eliminate the causes of suffering.

If you find it easier to understand and relate to then it might.

PrairieGhost

The more I study, the more I understand that there is a non-dual tradition in all faiths and cultures, and in secular philosophy too. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

caz

RebeccaS said:

caz said:

Judaism and Sikhism will not free you from suffering or eliminate the causes of suffering.

If you find it easier to understand and relate to then it might.

They do not included instructions on eliminating Deluded minds so no they won't actually be a cause of freedom from suffering rather rebirth in higher Samsaric realms.

DaftChris

caz said:

RebeccaS said:

caz said:

Judaism and Sikhism will not free you from suffering or eliminate the causes of suffering.

If you find it easier to understand and relate to then it might.

They do not included instructions on eliminating Deluded minds so no they won't actually be a cause of freedom from suffering rather rebirth in higher Samsaric realms.

But isn't it also possible, that by believing that Buddhism is the only way from suffering, that you are deluding yourself?

PrairieGhost

Actually, there's a non-dual tradition in the English language. The whole path is described in one word: selflessness.

It just takes most of us, including me, something of an effort to see clearly that it's a good option.

And seemingly paradoxically, that we're already there nothing to realise yadda yadda yadda .

lobster

DaftChris said:

But isn't it also possible, that by believing that Buddhism is the only way from suffering, that you are deluding yourself?

Well suffering is a Jewish tradition.
It is one of the reasons we often have such a great time. It is a way of experiencing a diversity and variety of highs, lows and . . . humanity . . .

Buddhists are as prone to delusion as any person who is superficial.

Can we move from a combined Hindu/Sufi tradition such as Sikhism to truth or happiness or wisdom. The answer is yes but all traditions take great efforts to find this genuine internal progression . . .

I feel going to temples and meeting people of faith and goodwill is an honour.
The point I wish to stress is be honest with yourself and others what you want. Presently you may not even be sure. That is fine.

I was made an Honorary Jew (not sure if that is even possible but I was and I have not even been to temple - ever). I know the Tiniest bit of Kabbalah . . . probaby enough for several lifetimes of further study . . . it is not for me . . .

I wish you ever success.

caz

DaftChris said:

caz said:

RebeccaS said:

caz said:

Judaism and Sikhism will not free you from suffering or eliminate the causes of suffering.

If you find it easier to understand and relate to then it might.

They do not included instructions on eliminating Deluded minds so no they won't actually be a cause of freedom from suffering rather rebirth in higher Samsaric realms.

But isn't it also possible, that by believing that Buddhism is the only way from suffering, that you are deluding yourself?

Not at all Buddhism is thoroughly examined the teachings of Buddha where observations about the condition of suffering and how to alleviate it Buddhadharma is the only method to actually free people from suffering permanently by cutting through the causes of suffering (which is delusion) to suggest that one is deluded by thinking Buddhism is the only way to free oneself from suffering is illogical as it has tried and tested methods to remove the causes of suffering, other religious systems offer a totally different path, I maintain that Buddhism is the only method to deal with suffering and its causes but do not doubt that other religious traditions offer a method to temporarily escape to the higher realms of Samsara through the practice of virtue.

DaftChris

caz said:

DaftChris said:

caz said:

RebeccaS said:

caz said:

Judaism and Sikhism will not free you from suffering or eliminate the causes of suffering.

If you find it easier to understand and relate to then it might.

They do not included instructions on eliminating Deluded minds so no they won't actually be a cause of freedom from suffering rather rebirth in higher Samsaric realms.

But isn't it also possible, that by believing that Buddhism is the only way from suffering, that you are deluding yourself?

Not at all Buddhism is thoroughly examined the teachings of Buddha where observations about the condition of suffering and how to alleviate it Buddhadharma is the only method to actually free people from suffering permanently by cutting through the causes of suffering (which is delusion) to suggest that one is deluded by thinking Buddhism is the only way to free oneself from suffering is illogical as it has tried and tested methods to remove the causes of suffering, other religious systems offer a totally different path, I maintain that Buddhism is the only method to deal with suffering and its causes but do not doubt that other religious traditions offer a method to temporarily escape to the higher realms of Samsara through the practice of virtue.

Okay...what about people who don't believe in the more supernatural aspects? To them it doesn't matter about the samsaras or rebirth. Buddhism is a guide to better ourselves, but it's not absolute. I follow it because it does help me, but I do not think it is the only way; hence my interest in Judaism and Sikhism.

Also, "I maintain that Buddhism is the only method to deal with suffering and its causes but do not doubt that other religious traditions offer a method to temporarily escape to the higher realms of Samsara"? What a repugnantly arrogant think to say. Unless extremists are involved, one religious path is not superior to the other. What about people who are "saved" by Christianity and are genuinely bettered by it? What about the Muslim, Jew or Hindu who is bettered by their path?

And this notion that Buddhism is the thoroughly examined teachings of the Buddha therefore it is correct is about as ridiculous as "science" in the Qur'an proving Islam or "archaeological evidence" in the Bible that proves Christianity. To the believer, it is infallible. To everyone else, it's delusion.