Rebirth Rates

Silouan

I have heard that obtaining a human life is considered most precious, because it is provides the greatest opportunity to meet the Dharma, and is most conducive to its practice. What is the spiritual significance of declining global human birth rates not only for human beings but for other beings occupying the different realms of Buddhist cosmology particularly for those in what are considered lower states of existence?

Patr

Think the animal, insect and fish numbers have declined tremendously for the past century, while humans have 7 billion now. We have peak human population today since our recorded history started, what decline? The worlds population is on an uptrend.

If one comes across someone who actually reminds you of an animal, chances are he/she was, past life anyway. If you observe carefully, there are plenty of them.

Transmigration between the realms, its stated in the Dharma, so no surprises in that
7 billion humans have a chance (however slight) to learn the Dharma, we have less than 1 billion Buddhists. The number of true Buddhists, who adhere to the Dharma, without abuse of power and position, cruelty, right livelihood ( cant be a pimp, drug dealer, gun seller etc) what numbers do we have.

Hell population has not been published lately, only way to know is to reach the higher Jhanas, so dont ask for references..

how

It is not one birth /that leads to one death /that leads to one rebirth.
rather
think of it as the inertia of countless karmic streams gelling as new chances to find resolution.

jll

birth rates are declining in developed countries, not in 3rd world.
there have never been more people on earth in history.
7 billion and increasing by the second.

Silouan said:

I have heard that obtaining a human life is considered most precious, because it is provides the greatest opportunity to meet the Dharma, and is most conducive to its practice. What is the spiritual significance of declining global human birth rates not only for human beings but for other beings occupying the different realms of Buddhist cosmology particularly for those in what are considered lower states of existence?

Dakini

jll said:

birth rates are declining in developed countries, not in 3rd world.
there have never been more people on earth in history.
7 billion and increasing by the second.

This is what I was going to say. Besides, according to the Buddha, there are many other realms into which beings can be reborn, if ours happens to run out of people.

JosephW

Silouan said:

I have heard that obtaining a human life is considered most precious, because it is provides the greatest opportunity to meet the Dharma, and is most conducive to its practice. What is the spiritual significance of declining global human birth rates not only for human beings but for other beings occupying the different realms of Buddhist cosmology particularly for those in what are considered lower states of existence?

Because people got smarter.

Silouan

Some countries or regions within them may be experiencing increases in birth rates, but as a collective global figure it has been suggested that it is declining. The reported 7 billion and increasing global population is not solely the result of birth rates. The population comprises more aged persons than ever before so even a declining birth rate at a certain level will contribute to a population increase. However, the effects of a declining birth rate are projected to be seen mid century as the aged population decreases to due death.

Some interesting articles on the topic:

economist.com/node/14744915

foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/10/11/think_again_global_aging?page=full

nytimes.com/2012/03/13/opinion/brooks-the-fertility-implosion.html?_r=1&ref=davidbrooks

JohnG

Give it time; with the world as it is today, who wouldn't wait awhile to come back. Remember "right place" "right time" "right parents". Soon there'll be a population explosion. :coffee:

Silouan

I learned that karma, being an instance of the natural law of cause and effect, only becomes significant when it affects experience. Not only are the results of karma experienced at individual level, but shared within a society, and ultimately a realm.

I had read several years ago, and maybe I'm saying this wrong, that a karmic action already contains within it the seed if you will of its own dissolution. Since our realm shares a "collective karma" it would already be in movement towards its dissolution.

There are some Mahayana scriptures that address the topic of a Dharma ending age where it is suggested that the effectiveness of the Buddha's teaching will decline and eventually disappear altogether, and Maitreya, the future Buddha, who is waiting in the Tushita Heaven will incarnate to introduce the Dharma once more.

The thing that puzzles me though is that a Buddha already incarnated in our realm, but other Buddha realms such as where Amitahba resides is suggested to be without retrogression if re-birth is obtained there. One would think that if a Buddha appeared in a realm it would eventually be purified of ignorance because of his presence through the Dharma and become a Buddha realm.

person

If you're going to accept literal rebirth in the premise then you should also accept Buddhist cosmology in your question. Buddhist cosmology accepts many different realms and worlds that one can be reborn into, not just this planet.

Real or not, its internal logic is consistent.

DairyLama

person said:

If you're going to accept literal rebirth in the premise then you should also accept Buddhist cosmology in your question. Buddhist cosmology accepts many different realms and worlds that one can be reborn into, not just this planet.

Good point.

Silouan

I wasn't refuting the view point of literal re-birth in other realms, and anyway I don't see how a Buddhist wouldn't accept it either. If it wasn't literal then what of every being in less fortunate conditions or no access to the teachings of the Dharma for opportunity of enlightenment.

I was addressing primarily the only realm we currently exist in, and if in the Buddhist cosmology the most precious birth to obtain is human for reasons previously stated, and we are in a Dharma ending age where its teachings are becoming ineffectual coupled with declining birth rates and increasing extinction of species then one can deduce through inference that perhaps there is propensity for re-birth in realms and forms less conducive for enlightenment.

person

I guess I read your OP as an often asked question regarding rebirth.

Now that I better understand your point I'm not really sure there is any spiritual significance. There isn't any kind of overarching plan in Buddhist theology that dictates a just number of fortunate rebirths. In fact if I recall correctly there are "dark" periods lasting aeons where there is no dharma in the world. Beings can still be born with fortunate births since virtue isn't limited to Buddhism.

I don't know if that gets at your post or not.

Silouan

@person
Thank you for the explanation.

Dakini

Silouan said:

Some countries or regions within them may be experiencing increases in birth rates, but as a collective global figure it has been suggested that it is declining. The reported 7 billion and increasing global population is not solely the result of birth rates. The population comprises more aged persons than ever before so even a declining birth rate at a certain level will contribute to a population increase. However, the effects of a declining birth rate are projected to be seen mid century as the aged population decreases to due death.

I think global birth rate is hard to predict. China's about to change it's one-child policy. Watch out, when that happens!

And I agree with @person; if you were thinking that fortunate rebirths occur only in a Buddhist context, Buddhist families or cultures, that's not how it works. And there's the matter of other realms, as well. Furthermore, an Enlightened being can choose to be born in a hell realm, to help beings there advance, or into any realm, not necessarily the human one.