Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Foxconn Strike

PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
edited October 2012 in General Banter
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/05/foxconn-apple-iphone-china-strike

'Geoffrey Crothall, a spokesman for the pressure group China Labor Bulletin, said at the time that Foxconn workers were becoming increasingly emboldened.

"They're more willing to stand up for their rights, to stand up to injustice," he said.'
zombiegirl

Comments

  • Without Foxconn, these people wouldn't have jobs.
  • Yes, and if they were paid fairly, they'd have better jobs.
  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    And the industrial action has improved wages already.
    A junior level worker in Shenzhen, China, will receive 1,800 yuan a month, according to Reuters, citing a statement by the Taiwan-based company. Monthly pay may rise to 2,200 yuan if the worker passes a technical examination. That puts the monthly pay at between $285 to $350, Reuters reports. Foxconn said this is the third pay increase since 2010, when the monthly salary was 900 yuan a month.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/connieguglielmo/2012/02/17/apple-supplier-foxconn-raises-pay-again/

    The O.P. story is essentially an example of the good that union action and consumer/media pressure is doing in the world. Foxconn has promised (though not yet delivered) to double pay again.

    This is, however, putting pressure on other factories, and the holistic effect on China's economy of one factory raising wages is complex.

    What we need are universal labour standards - if anyone knows of an organisation that's promoting this kind of solution, I'd be grateful for the information. We shouldn't be able to legally buy goods made in conditions which would be illegal in our own, wealthy countries; the fact that we can now makes a mockery of the human rights our governments claim to uphold, and of our own claim that westerners live in 'civilised' countries.
    karasti
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    the whole idea that we can pay "other people" less and then sell products for lots of money to spoiled Americans, is crazy to me. I know corporations and CEOs getting rich off the backs of poorly paid and over worked workers is the capitalist, American way. But it makes me sick, and I do use the ethical consumer when I'm in the market for electronics now. Unfortunately with phones, we only have 2 providers available here which somewhat limits what phone brands we can use.

    For someone to make up to $350 a month working in crappy conditions building Iphones so that the person who bought one for $400 6 months ago can buy the latest and greatest one today for another $400, just is ridiculous. The excuse that "a job is better than no job" gets tiring, because the only time that is true is when you have to have the money to keep you and your family alive, and that's not good enough when you work around the clock (which takes you away from your family) for beans and no benefits. It's like being a hamster on a wheel and it devalues people and creates many health problems for them.
  • What do you think is the solution?
  • music said:

    What do you think is the solution?

    Just off the top of my head....

    Require any corporations that want to do business in American states to follow that state's labour laws, including minimum/working wages. American companies that purchase items from foreign company's should provide independently originated proof of the foreign companies' compliance with these laws.
    PrairieGhost
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    For Americans and other westerners to be aware of how their actions impact people globally and to actually care. If people care, they'll stop buying those products which forces manufacturers to make changes that actually have an impact on the factory workers. Americans (and others I'm sure but I specify Americans because that's where I live and it's what I see) need to stop being so greedy, and so oblivious to how their extravagant lives affect people all around the world. The typical American uses so many resources that we would need like 12 planet Earths to support our current population if everyone lived that way. We consume far, far more than our share. And the only way to fix that is to stop consuming, to stop feeling entitled to the "best" of everything because we're the "best" country in the world.

    This is a really interesting exercise if you want an idea of how much you consume, just make sure you are honest ;)
    http://www.myfootprint.org/

    Right now we are at 6 earths in our family, and we work hard to decrease it every year adding in what we can afford for resource saving things in our home and lives. Unfortunately, because of where we live, certain things that could help, are unavailable, or we can't afford them. But we do a little at a time to try to do our part.
    PrairieGhostSile
  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    Also, just selfishly speaking, in a few years, we in the west could be working for these folks or their children, and they're going to be looking to teach us a thing or two about hard work.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    music said:

    Without Foxconn, these people wouldn't have jobs.

    Whoa whoa. You need to read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Stat.

    Good for the Foxconn workers. What's interesting to me is how many people really believe that Apple's products are made in the USA just because of the high price. Nope, they're made in China just like everything else with Apple simply increasing their profit margin by the day.
  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    The market research firm conducted a virtual teardown of the latest iPhone and estimates that the parts used in the 16 GB version cost Apple $199 while the manufacturing cost is another $8, meaning Apple pays about $207 to build the entry-level iPhone 5.
    8 dollars.

    image

    http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/06/06/apple-ios-stats-200-million-devices-sold-25-million-ipads-14-billion-apps-downloaded-and-more/
    Apple didn’t say how many iPhones it sold to date. However, we know that there were 100 million units sold in March. We also know that the company shipped more than 60 million iPod Touches as of the same month. Certainly, there have been several more million iPod Touches sold since then – let’s say 5 million at most. This would mean iPhone sales hit 110 million (probably more, though) by now. So, about 10 million iPhones were sold since March.
    Looking at manufacturing costs vs price, factoring in marketing, and considering that research and development is a relatively small overhead, 200 dollars per phone profit is a conservative estimate. (All of the articles I checked made higher estimates.)

    Now what kind of a world would this be, if that 8 dollars manufacturing cost was, for reasons of common decency, bumped up to 100 dollars. Or 50 dollars. Hell, even a dollar more per phone, and let's add the other manufacturers too, Microsoft, Sony, Asus (my laptop) etc. Let's not single out Apple. They all use Foxconn factories.

    Foxconn employs around 930,000 people. Just imagine how different the world would be, if 1 measly dollar per phone, laptop, tablet, was added to their lot in life.

    This would look different, for a start:

    image

    And this:

    image

    And if that doesn't persuade, does anyone yet hear the sound of drums in the distance?

    image

    ...

    image



  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    It always ends this way, unless something good is done first. And I'm not just talking about Apple or Foxconn, I'm talking about the whole world economy.

    Something always gives, and when it does, you've got a whole lot of Sparticuses banging on your door, because what's to lose?
  • There will always be masters and workers. That's the nature of the material world.
  • Most of the things you use have come from cheap labor, sweatshops etc. are you going to give up your clothes, shoes, medicine, shelter, and almost everything? So reducing consumption is evidently an impulsive yet foolhardy decision.
  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    Hi music:
    Most of the things you use have come from cheap labor, sweatshops etc. are you going to give up your clothes, shoes, medicine, shelter, and almost everything? So reducing consumption is evidently an impulsive yet foolhardy decision.
    My clothes come from charity shops. My shelter was not built in sweatshops, though there are probably things that were e.g. lightbulbs and kitchen fittings and so on.

    My computer, yes, was probably assembled at Foxconn, and I knew that before I bought it. It's not a luxury item for me though, and it enabled me to find my job in a public university in a poor region of China, where I'm going in a couple of weeks to teach English, which I hope will improve peoples' job prospects.

    I'm going to be paid 600 dollars a month, which for me is plenty. I've taught for 300 dollars a month and was quite comfortable, but I don't have a family to support, unlike many sweatshop workers. And I'm practising Buddhism, which makes conditions less relevant to me.

    But, and this is very important, the point here is not that we have to give everything up. The point is that universal labour regulations could double, triple the pay of sweatshop workers without breaking the current system. The point is that we are fed the lie that wages have to be low in order to keep goods cheap - this just isn't true, as the analysis in my previous post shows.

    Please understand this: the savings made by paying the workers peanuts are not passed on to us, the consumers. The notion that they are is a myth.

    Staff wages are just a fraction of the assembly cost of 8 dollars which is itself a tiny fraction of the price of an iphone.

    There is nothing wrong with manufacturing competitive products and making profits. What's wrong is the endless drive to shave pennies from company overheads, at the expense of people who can't afford to eat more than noodles or sleep anywhere better than a factory dormitory, and who have no choice but to work or go back to their starving villages.

    And this will not change without regulation, because newspapers cannot and will not research every company with a view to exposing their practises.

    Even now, we're all concerned with Apple, because it makes a good headline, and because that individualistic hipster thing is a bit worn out now and ready for a fall. But in actual fact, Foxconn makes electronics for most of the major computer, smartphone and console brands.

    Now, you say nothing will change. So how many slaves do you own these days?

    Things change.
    music
  • All I am saying is, focusing on the consumer aspect of the economy is like giving a cancer patient a placebo instead of serious treatment. The real problem is the production process - where all this exploitation of cheap labor takes place. Ignoring that is like ignoring the disease and focusing on the symptom.
    PrairieGhost
  • Agreed. Consumer choices can help in individual cases that are we learn about, but responsible, international regulation of labour standards is the only complete solution. Otherwise the factories just move to Vietnam (or another poor country), as they are doing now that Chinese workers are demanding better pay and conditons. It's neo-colonialism.

    Poverty and lack of education are at the root of so many problems. Material stability is also helpful in allowing people to self-actualise, including studying and practising the Dhamma. It's difficult to end suffering in the wider sense if you're born struggling to end it in a specific sense i.e. trying to get a living wage.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    No one is ignoring the problem in the manufacturing process. It's not entirely possible to completely eliminate the problem by looking at your own consumerism. But it is possible to greatlyreduce it, however it only has an impact if enough people do it. Too many people care too much about having the newest Iphone than they do about what it took to bring it to their greedy little hands.

    Actually the house I live in was built by my father with wood logged locally. Most of the furniture in it was made either by my father or my grandfather (and in a few cases even my greatgrandfather who brought stuff with him from Finland.) Yes, we have electronics, but we do try to purchase them as responsibly as we can and in time we will have far fewer of them. We heat our home with wood that is logged from my uncle's property. 95% of my little boy's toys were made in the USA and purchased locally. I need particular shoes but I did research the company and came up with the best I could within the options available. My winter boots are made locally. So yes, we are willing to give up some of the comfort and convinience (I can never spell that right, lol) in order to try to give up a lot of the rabid consumerism. Once we are able to move to a smaller space (our house is about 1200 sq ft, with 5 people) we will, probably something more along the lines of 600-800sq feet with a garden large enough to sustain us most of the year. Sustaining our lives, will become our life, rather than sustaining the economy. So in short, yes, I am willing to give up all the crap that supposedly makes us happier, more comfortable, etc. Have I done it 100% yet? No, but we work towards it and try to make good choices instead of just pretending our consumerist life has no effect on the world around us.
    PrairieGhostSileVastmind
  • PrairieGhostPrairieGhost Veteran
    edited October 2012
    Of course it does help to buy ethically, but as I've explained before, it's a myth that low wages are necessary for the production of cheap luxury goods. Low wages in the developing world are not for our benefit, but for the benefit of shareholders and executives.

    And without regulation, it will continue.

    The other half of the strategy, and this includes Buddhism, is to change the attitude that the harm we do only matters if we can see it with our own eyes. Buddhism (as practised in many places) is the worst religion of all in this respect, with the notion of psychological karma, and the idea that it's ok to eat meat but not to be a butcher or a hunter.

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    Oh I totally agree, that the low wages are for profit. Corporations don't move their factories and call centers over seas to help out the poor jobless people there. They do it to avoid paying Americans wages and benefits because it cuts into their profit too much when they know someone in Hong Kong will work for peanuts. I agree as well with your second paragraph. It's important to follow the trail, so to speak. The meat a store is no less a dead animal, and IMO you are no less responsible for the killing of that animal than if you did it yourself. To me it's actually worse (just my opinion) because of the life the animals live on the farms, and because the killing of them doesn't happen to sustain life so much as it does to again, make a profit.
Sign In or Register to comment.