inFact: New Age Energy! Interesting!!

DaltheJigsaw

This is really interesting about the "New Age Energy Thought/Idea"

DaltheJigsaw

His website: http://skeptoid.com/

Dakini

This guy is an idiot. The human energy field is the same type of electromagnetic field that surrounds all living things (and non-living things, like most rocks) on the earth, and indeed, the Earth itself. The planet has its own electro-magnetic field, created by the polarity of the earth's magnetic core and the positive charge emitted toward earth by the sun. The human body itself functions on electricity. Electricity created by the positive and negative charges of the electrolytes we consume in our food daily is what allows up to move, it helps us contract and relax our muscles so we can move about in the world and do things. Electricity is what keep our heart ticking; there's a natural pacemaker in the heart, putting out little electrical pulses.

So this term the speaker thinks is so nebulous and "woo-woo", "energy field", is nothing but the human electromagnetic field. The electrical output of the human body can be measured, and has been measured, it's not a big deal. Go to any science exploratorium in your area (there's one in San Francisco, and there's one at Lawrence Hall of Science in the Berkeley hills, Leon), and you can measure your EM field. If you're good at manipulating your own energy, you can actually watch the needles of the measuring device bounce around as you increase or decrease your energy output (if you know how to do that). These Asian disciplines like Qi Gong, Reiki, etc. are aimed at teaching people to manipulate the force of the energy they give out and direct toward others.

This is basic physics and anatomy and physiology, nothing fancy. Scientists have known about it for about 80 years. :rolleyes: Unbelievable that people try to pitch it as pseudo-science. And just in case anyone has any doubts, I discussed the EM field stuff with a physicist from our local National Lab, and he went in to a little more detail, but in the end thought that more simple, basic science needs to be taught in schools, so that people wouldn't be in the dark about this.

Dakini

"At the heart of our planet lies a solid iron ball, about as hot as the sun's survace, called "the inner core". 70% as wide as the moon, it spins at its own rate, faster than the earth above it, and has its own ocean. Earth's magnetic field comes from this ocean of iron, which is an electrically conducting fluid in constant motion."
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/29dec_magneticfield.html
Earth's "energy field": http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/160768/enlarge

In 1970 David Cohen of MIT...measured magnetic fields around the head produced by brain activity. Subsequently he discovered that all organs and tissues produce specific magnetic pulsations. http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ScienceMeasures.htm

According to physicists at Los Alamos National Laboratory, the same elements and processes that create the Earth's magnetic field also contribute to humans' and animals' electromagnetic fields. The Earth's magnetic core and solar energy in the Earth's atmosphere create a positive/negative polarity similar to the Earth's. The electrical processes of the body combine with this to produce an electromagnetic field around the body.

DaltheJigsaw

Dakini said:

"At the heart of our planet lies a solid iron ball, about as hot as the sun's survace, called "the inner core". 70% as wide as the moon, it spins at its own rate, faster than the earth above it, and has its own ocean. Earth's magnetic field comes from this ocean of iron, which is an electrically conducting fluid in constant motion."
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/29dec_magneticfield.html
Earth's "energy field": http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/160768/enlarge

In 1970 David Cohen of MIT...measured magnetic fields around the head produced by brain activity. Subsequently he discovered that all organs and tissues produce specific magnetic pulsations. http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ScienceMeasures.htm

According to physicists at Los Alamos National Laboratory, the same elements and processes that create the Earth's magnetic field also contribute to humans' and animals' electromagnetic fields. The Earth's magnetic core and solar energy in the Earth's atmosphere create a positive/negative polarity similar to the Earth's. The electrical processes of the body combine with this to produce an electromagnetic field around the body.

Thanks!:) Have you seen his other videos?

RebeccaS

Dakini said:

This guy is an idiot. The human energy field is the same type of electromagnetic field that surrounds all living things (and non-living things, like most rocks) on the earth, and indeed, the Earth itself. The planet has its own electro-magnetic field, created by the polarity of the earth's magnetic core and the positive charge emitted toward earth by the sun. The human body itself functions on electricity. Electricity created by the positive and negative charges of the electrolytes we consume in our food daily is what allows up to move, it helps us contract and relax our muscles so we can move about in the world and do things. Electricity is what keep our heart ticking; there's a natural pacemaker in the heart, putting out little electrical pulses.

So this term the speaker thinks is so nebulous and "woo-woo", "energy field", is nothing but the human electromagnetic field. The electrical output of the human body can be measured, and has been measured, it's not a big deal. Go to any science exploratorium in your area (there's one in San Francisco, and there's one at Lawrence Hall of Science in the Berkeley hills, Leon), and you can measure your EM field. If you're good at manipulating your own energy, you can actually watch the needles of the measuring device bounce around as you increase or decrease your energy output (if you know how to do that). These Asian disciplines like Qi Gong, Reiki, etc. are aimed at teaching people to manipulate the force of the energy they give out and direct toward others.

This is basic physics and anatomy and physiology, nothing fancy. Scientists have known about it for about 80 years. :rolleyes: Unbelievable that people try to pitch it as pseudo-science. And just in case anyone has any doubts, I discussed the EM field stuff with a physicist from our local National Lab, and he went in to a little more detail, but in the end thought that more simple, basic science needs to be taught in schools, so that people wouldn't be in the dark about this.

I liked him! And I think what he says is true - the word has been hijacked, to a degree at least, and definitely in the pop spirituality world. It was a cute video

MaryAnne

Many words are "hijacked" and their (new) meaning then points to something else not quite what the word meant originally. Language is always evolving.
I think this guy is splitting hairs really- over one single word. Energy.

Ok, so we won't allow the new age woo-woo "energy workers" and healers to use such a scientifically explicit term such as "energy" ...[rolls eyes here]... so what other word or terminology can they use?
"Waves?" "Magic woo-woo?" "Invisible forces?" "Power?"

Come on, even he admits in the video that he can't prove this "Stuff" exists, or doesn't exist. But yet he wants to claim the word "energy" for pure scientific use only? Please.... He needs to find something else to uselessly pontificate about.

RebeccaS

I don't think it's useless. There's so much airy woo woo crap out there that I'd consider their use of the word devolution rather than evolution

MaryAnne

RebeccaS said:

I don't think it's useless. There's so much airy woo woo crap out there that I'd consider their use of the word devolution rather than evolution

I bet there's a lot of people out there who would say the same thing about religion, rebirth, Karma, spirits, god(s), reincarnation, meditation, and everything else we can't prove scientifically.... so we can call it a wash I guess.

Dakini

Studies at McGill University over 20 years ago proved that a Japanese "healer" could change the molecular structure of water in a glass jar that he held in his hands. Some of this stuff can be proved, and has been proved. A Polish "energy worker" or "healer" had a lab researcher wire him up and test his electrical output when he was doing his healing thing, The instruments measuring the man's electrical output indicated huge energy surges that the researcher said were "impossible, except that it just now happened". Where did I read a quote today, that said something like, "If you can't conceive the impossible, you'll never find it"?

I think the guy in the video has created a straw-man argument by using the term "energy" himself, rather than "electromagnetic field". He seems to be behind in his science education. Yes Brian, "energy fields" are real, and we can detect them. *sigh*

RebeccaS

We can prove energy exists. It exists without a doubt. It's still very mysterious (it can't be created and it can't be destroyed, wtf? ) and like everything in the world, I personally believe there is a spiritual aspect to it. But I also believe that people take advantage of the idea of energy and use the word out of context to make their belief system sound legitimate.

There's just a whole lot of crap out there

Dakini

Oh, I see your point. It's become a buzzword, and gets tossed around too casually?

RebeccaS

Dakini said:

Studies at McGill University over 20 years ago proved that a Japanese "healer" could change the molecular structure of water in a glass jar that he held in his hands. Some of this stuff can be proved, and has been proved. A Polish "energy worker" or "healer" had a lab researcher wire him up and test his electrical output when he was doing his healing thing, The instruments measuring the man's electrical output indicated huge energy surges that the researcher said were "impossible, except that it just now happened". Where did I read a quote today, that said something like, "If you can't conceive the impossible, you'll never find it"?

I think the guy in the video has created a straw-man argument by using the term "energy" himself, rather than "electromagnetic field". He seems to be behind in his science education. Yes Brian, "energy fields" are real, and we can detect them. *sigh*

I love that dude with the water, it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

RebeccaS

Dakini said:

Oh, I see your point. It's become a buzzword, and gets tossed around to casually?

Basically, yes. Casually, and sometimes just plain incorrectly.

Energy is awesome and incredible, we don't need to add a layer of pseudo spiritual bullshit to give it meaning.

Dakini

RebeccaS said:

Dakini said:

Oh, I see your point. It's become a buzzword, and gets tossed around to casually?

Basically, yes. Casually, and sometimes just plain incorrectly.

Energy is awesome and incredible, we don't need to add a layer of pseudo spiritual bullshit to give it meaning.

I guess I'm not familiar with what you're referring to, exactly. Could you give an example?

RebeccaS

Putative energy medicine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_medicine#Classification

They had to distinguish between "energy" and "energies" because they're not actually talking about the same thing. They both have their place, even in spirituality, but I think the distinction is an important one and one that isn't always made.

And I don't think it's all pseudo spiritual bullshit either, but I do think some of it is and that it's not always easy to tell the difference. Like, accupuncture - cool. Crystal healing - nonsense.

But still, those are energies as opposed to energy.

DairyLama

RebeccaS said:

. But I also believe that people take advantage of the idea of energy and use the word out of context to make their belief system sound legitimate.
There's just a whole lot of crap out there

Yes, I call it psuedo-science, often it's based on intellectual laziness and a deeply flawed understanding of actual science. I find the vagueness of new-age terminology quite irritating sometimes, it seems often people won't ( can't? ) explain what they actually mean by terms like "earth energy". Then people start burbling on about quantum physics, apparently unaware that our everyday world is actually governed by Newtownian mechanics, and so it goes on.....

RebeccaS

PedanticPorpoise said:

RebeccaS said:

. But I also believe that people take advantage of the idea of energy and use the word out of context to make their belief system sound legitimate.
There's just a whole lot of crap out there

Yes, I call it psuedo-science, often it's based on intellectual laziness and a deeply flawed understanding of actual science. I find the vagueness of new-age terminology quite irritating sometimes, it seems often people won't ( can't? ) explain what they actually mean by terms like "earth energy". Then people start burbling on about quantum physics, apparently unaware that our everyday world is actually governed by Newtownian mechanics, and so it goes on.....

I think ideas like "earth energy" are intentionally vague because the people who tout them don't really know what they're talking about, but use the ideas to bring people to their way of thinking. "Earth energy"? What does that even mean?

The Newtonian paradigm is an interesting stepping stone, but I think quantum is where it's at, at least for now

DairyLama

RebeccaS said:

I think ideas like "earth energy" are intentionally vague because the people who tout them don't really know what they're talking about, but use the ideas to bring people to their way of thinking. "Earth energy"? What does that even mean?

The Newtonian paradigm is an interesting stepping stone, but I think quantum is where it's at, at least for now

Quantum mechanics is fascinating but it doesn't seem to work above the sub-atomic level.

As for ideas like "earth energy", it may be about people trying to validate a subjective experience by giving it a technical sounding name. That doesn't mean they haven't had an interesting experience, and having had some odd experiences myself, I do have an open mind. I just wish people would explain more clearly what they have actually experienced, instead of resorting to lazy new-age cliches.

RebeccaS

PedanticPorpoise said:

think ideas like "earth energy" are intentionally vague because the people who tout them don't really know what they're talking about, but use the ideas to bring people to their way of thinking. "Earth energy"? What does that even mean?

The Newtonian paradigm is an interesting stepping stone, but I think quantum is where it's at, at least for now

Quantum mechanics is fascinating but it doesn't seem to work above the sub-atomic level.

As for ideas like "earth energy", it may be about people trying to validate a subjective experience by giving it a technical sounding name. That doesn't mean they haven't had an interesting experience, and having had some odd experiences myself, I do have an open mind. I just wish people would explain more clearly what they have actually experienced, instead of resorting to lazy new-age cliches.



I'm not entirely sure how quantum works on the macro level, but just because it doesn't seem to translate now doesn't mean that it won't. It's interesting, nonetheless and it's implications are staggering.

And yeah, I totally agree with the new age cliche thing

Dakini

RebeccaS said:

I think ideas like "earth energy" are intentionally vague because the people who tout them don't really know what they're talking about

OK, I get what you mean, now. But just because there are airheads out there who don't know basic science or haven't bothered to look it up, doesn't mean that "earth energy" (by which I assume they mean electromagnetism) doesn't exist. If someone can't explain how gravity works, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that talking around it in different terms is pseudo-science. It only means they don't know how to name the phenomenon they're talking about, and explain it. The problem is that the way in which they talk about it leads others to believe that it is pseudo-science, and that gravity (or EM fields, or whatever) doesn't exist!

RebeccaS

Dakini said:

RebeccaS said:

I think ideas like "earth energy" are intentionally vague because the people who tout them don't really know what they're talking about

OK, I get what you mean, now. But just because there are airheads out there who don't know basic science or haven't bothered to look it up, doesn't mean that "earth energy" (by which I assume they mean electromagnetism) doesn't exist. If someone can't explain how gravity works, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that talking around it in different terms is pseudo-science. It only means they don't know how to name the phenomenon they're talking about, and explain it. The problem is that the way in which they talk about it leads others to believe that it is pseudo-science, and that gravity (or EM fields, or whatever) doesn't exist!

I'm not denying its existence necessarily, though I do think some of it is nonsense. Magic crystals? Really? No. It's crap. I think the problem is determining the difference between the nonsense and the genuinely mystical (which I think that science as we know it can only go so far in explaining) and knowing where to draw the line between energy, energies and BS, and people blurring the lines between them in the promotion of their own agendas.

Which leads to the problem you mentioned - "the way in which they talk about it leads others to believe that it is pseudo-science, and that gravity (or EM fields, or whatever) doesn't exist!" and to its sister problem - the "magic crystals are real" type beliefs.

Dakini

Agreed. Good point.
However, gemstones (a type of crystal) are used in Tibetan medicines. That class of Tibetan remedies, called "precious pills", has been studied in labs in Germany and Austria, where it was found that each gemstone type had its own electromagnetic charge, and what they did for different ailments is give a little electrical jolt to ailing cells to kick-start them on the way to recovery. (See film: "The Knowledge of Healing") Now, this isn't how New Age crystal healers use crystals, but that's not to say that crystals don't have useful healing properties at all.

But again, as you pointed out, what is a legitimate scientific fact can easily get turned into vague talk about "frequencies", and then people start selling water they say is charged to this or that "frequency" for healing and so forth. I think there's very interesting science behind some of the mumbo-jumbo, but the mumbo-jumbo speakers are too lazy to research it (possibly out of fear that they'll discover their mumbo-jumbo has been misapplied and has lost touch with the science).

RebeccaS

I believe some of the mumbo jumbo stuff I don't think that simply because science can't explain a phenomenon that it isn't real or that it can't be explained using another medium beyond the scientific paradigm, just that some mumbo jumbo can't be explained because it's nonsense.

zombiegirl

@Dakini But crystals can't create their own energy. Or not without force, anyway. But realistically, if you look at the process, it seems that the energy is just changing forms. With force, a crystal can create electricity, but they won't do it on their own just sitting there. It's called piezoelectricity. But since you mentioned the frequency, maybe you mean that the healers are sending an electric charge through the crystals, like how a quartz watch works.
Sorry, I'm curious as to what exactly they do with the crystals in Tibetan healing that differs from some of the woo-woo crystal stuff, lol. Could you give me more information?

I agree with you about this video though. For me, I've learned enough to be aware of what they call 'energy work'. I don't think it's just in my head that I can feel it... however, where I am unsure is whether or not it's actually healing and why it does if it is. But just because I am unsure does not mean that I can't entertain the thought. Just don't have enough experience to really say either way.

Dakini

zombiegirl said:

@Dakini But crystals can't create their own energy. Or not without force, anyway. But realistically, if you look at the process, it seems that the energy is just changing forms. With force, a crystal can create electricity, but they won't do it on their own just sitting there. It's called piezoelectricity. But since you mentioned the frequency, maybe you mean that the healers are sending an electric charge through the crystals, like how a quartz watch works.
Sorry, I'm curious as to what exactly they do with the crystals in Tibetan healing that differs from some of the woo-woo crystal stuff, lol. Could you give me more information?

I'm SO GLAD you brought this up! I was going to post something about it, but decided not to at first. When I first asked what the deal was with crystals, I was told just what you said--that they kind of magnify the energy the healer is putting out (again, this relates to the human EM field). "Just like the crystal in a watch". But someone online said that that's not at all what watch crystals are about. They said "Japanese crystal" or "Swiss crystal" only refers to the glass on the face of the watch...?? So you tell me, because I'd really like to understand this thing about crystals. But these days, watches run on batteries, so they don't need crystals to help run the watch. The crystals were for wind-up watches, back in the old days. Or so I thought.

Anyway, maybe the way the ground-up gemstones in Tibetan medicines work is that they pick up on energy in the body, or from the electrical processes in the body, and magnify them enough to boost ailing cells. The scientists in the film I referenced referred to them as "light bodies". Maybe they were translating a Tibetan term. Anyway, they said they were astonished at what they found. I'd have to watch the film all over again to see if there's more detail given.

ZG, I've used my hands as a massage therapist, and people have told me they felt something like electric prickles when I held my hands away from the body, and consciously tried to direct energy at the patient (I took a workshop on that). They said that even if their eyes were closed, and they didn't see me doing anything. But did anyone experience any benefit from it? I have no idea. I don't assume they did, I would just do that as an experiment. I don't think it's honest to charge for an "energy work" session if you can't guarantee results. I haven't met anyone in the West who can guarantee results. Well, there's this one Polish healer in Maryland who's been studied in a lab, and huge surges of electricity have been recorded coming from him. And a small child with severe epilepsy experienced a tremendous alleviation of her condition after quite a few sessions with him. He was certified at a young age to work in hospitals (in Poland), and to use his gift to speed patients' healing after surgery, among other things. But I checked him out, and it seems it takes a lot of sessions to experience any change in a chronic condition. I didn't get anything out of 3 sessions.

zombiegirl

@Dakini Quartz watches do use batteries, and actually, most watches contain quartz, you just wouldn't know it...
How Stuff Works:Quartz Watch
Or even better: A video

The only reason I know anything about them is because of a similar conversation I once had involving crystals. A friend of mine was arguing that crystals create energy, and I quote, "Otherwise how would a quartz watch work?" Well, I didn't know anything about how quartz watches worked, so I looked it up... and found out he was totally wrong, but of course, I was a day late and a dollar short... c'est la vie. But now I know better, lol.

My natural inclination is to say that energy from the body is different than electricity... but I just don't know. There is a video on youtube where a guy lights a LED light with just his hands... but my girlfriend is convinced it's a trick because apparently, all you would need is a watch battery and a magnet.

You know that I'm a massage therapist as well and I have quite a few personal experiences that have led me to believe in SOMETHING. I never advertise this aspect of my practice, so when I get certain comments, it is all the more interesting to me that other people notice something different when they aren't expecting it.
One experience I don't mind sharing involved my girlfriend having bad cramps. I've learned to focus my chi in my hands and it always makes my hands very hot. Since heat is always helpful to quell cramps, one night while we were laying in bed, I laid my hand over her abdomen and focused my chi like I've learned. I said nothing to her, and in fact, I've done this many many times before this...but this was the first time I ever tried to focus my chi. Long story short, a little while later she asked what I was doing and said that my hand felt like it was vibrating or "coming in waves". My girlfriend is an extremely scientific person (studying chemical engineering) and didn't believe me about chi or anything until this experience. This story, of course, is personal and not really "proof". To me, it's just an interesting story and might prove that there is SOMETHING there, but like I said... how do we know it is "healing"? I don't for sure.

DairyLama

Dakini said:

The problem is that the way in which they talk about it leads others to believe that it is pseudo-science, and that gravity (or EM fields, or whatever) doesn't exist!

But I think the people who talk about this stuff have a responsibility to explain themselves clearly. If by "earth energy" people mean electromagnetism, then they should say electromagnetism - which would allow other people to understand and assess their experience more objectively.

tmottes

I always push back against the new agers, asking them exactly what they mean when they speak of things being of a higher vibrational energy or whatever. It just doesn't fit in with my understanding of the physical world. I can't ever get a clear answer about what exactly is vibrating.

My understanding of vibrations of matter...

I learned a lot about energy and vibration in my chemistry classes in college. All molecules vibrate. Different elements and bonds have different vibrational motions and frequencies. I guess in theory if you combined enough pure molecules of a certain type, aligned them all the same, and made sure they all had the same vibrational motion, then perhaps it would result in an amplification in its vibrational energy (eventually to the point that the molecules would break up). In the real world this isn't going to happen without being specially devised. Its just like a feather and a bowling ball falling at the same speed in a vacuum: there are too many factors in the real world to ever see this happen. This isn't to say that all those vibrations don't result in some kind of effect that is too complex to understand.

For more information on molecular vibrations and energy, take a look at Molecular Vibration and Infrared Spectroscopy.

DaltheJigsaw

Have you guys seen his other videos?

Dakini

But I think the people who talk about this stuff have a responsibility to explain themselves clearly. If by "earth energy" people mean electromagnetism, then they should say electromagnetism - which would allow other people to understand and assess their experience more objectively.

I totally agree! That's what I was hinting at when I said they're too lazy to look it up. It's not that hard to explain or understand.

zombiegirl

Dakini said:

But I think the people who talk about this stuff have a responsibility to explain themselves clearly. If by "earth energy" people mean electromagnetism, then they should say electromagnetism - which would allow other people to understand and assess their experience more objectively.

I totally agree! That's what I was hinting at when I said they're too lazy to look it up. It's not that hard to explain or understand.



I think the problem is with a lot of what people learn. I hear things all the time from even massage therapists that don't make any sense. It would seem to me that there are a lot of people who are content to not make sense scientifically. With things like energy healing, where it's nearly impossible to prove anyways, of course it would attract people who are already okay with going on faith based assumptions. Not everyone, of course, but I recently met an energy healer and I was interested, but then she started talking about God and I was like... urrgghh.

I have such a hard time when people say stupid crap and I don't want to be rude. Everything I do is according to my understanding of the way the human body works and regenerates and I refuse to compromise knowledge for pseudo explanations.

Just a quick example of what I mean would be craniosacral therapy... The actual basis of it relies on the therapist manipulating the cranial sutures of the temporal bones, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE. They fuse after birth, don't we all know this? If a knock on the head doesn't jar the sutures, do you really think light touch by a hand would? Even worse, a craniosacral therapist apparently believes they can consult with a person's 'inner physician', receiving information almost like a medium. So this sounds crazy, right? However, it still exists and it's rather popular... I once applied for a job with a chiropractor and was told they were specifically looking for this type of therapist. *shakes head*

@LeonBasin I haven't seen any of his other videos. Sadly, I wasn't impressed enough to go looking. I felt like he took one thing he heard and made a broad generalization without looking into the specifics of the different therapies he bashes. I don't disagree about pseudo quackery, I just wish he would have done a little more research.

Applicable is this quote from Aristotle, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

DaltheJigsaw

zombiegirl said:

Dakini said:

But I think the people who talk about this stuff have a responsibility to explain themselves clearly. If by "earth energy" people mean electromagnetism, then they should say electromagnetism - which would allow other people to understand and assess their experience more objectively.

I totally agree! That's what I was hinting at when I said they're too lazy to look it up. It's not that hard to explain or understand.

I think the problem is with a lot of what people learn. I hear things all the time from even massage therapists that don't make any sense. It would seem to me that there are a lot of people who are content to not make sense scientifically. With things like energy healing, where it's nearly impossible to prove anyways, of course it would attract people who are already okay with going on faith based assumptions. Not everyone, of course, but I recently met an energy healer and I was interested, but then she started talking about God and I was like... urrgghh.

I have such a hard time when people say stupid crap and I don't want to be rude. Everything I do is according to my understanding of the way the human body works and regenerates and I refuse to compromise knowledge for pseudo explanations.

Just a quick example of what I mean would be craniosacral therapy... The actual basis of it relies on the therapist manipulating the cranial sutures of the temporal bones, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE. They fuse after birth, don't we all know this? If a knock on the head doesn't jar the sutures, do you really think light touch by a hand would? Even worse, a craniosacral therapist apparently believes they can consult with a person's 'inner physician', receiving information almost like a medium. So this sounds crazy, right? However, it still exists and it's rather popular... I once applied for a job with a chiropractor and was told they were specifically looking for this type of therapist. *shakes head*

@LeonBasin I haven't seen any of his other videos. Sadly, I wasn't impressed enough to go looking. I felt like he took one thing he heard and made a broad generalization without looking into the specifics of the different therapies he bashes. I don't disagree about pseudo quackery, I just wish he would have done a little more research.

Applicable is this quote from Aristotle, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Thanks! I thought he definitely rushed through the explanations and did not have enough evidence to support any of his claims. Or if he did, it was more opinionated, rather then anything of value. However, it's good to see the other side of the spectrum. But, I thought it was an interesting approach. I especially enjoyed his website. I posted it up above. Skeptoid.com

Dakini

Fascinating, about cranio-sacral, @zombiegirl. I'm glad I never wasted any money on that type of treatment. I remember we had a quickie training in it, in massage school, and most people couldn't "get" it when we tried it on each other. I guess that's why, ha, because the underlying theory is completely flawed. We were told "it's very subtle, you have to get a feel for it". Thanks for the eye-opener.

@LeonBasin; great thread! :ok:

Sile

Whether crystal triodes (the radio transistor) or medical minerals, I think the issue is not one of creating energy, but transforming/directing it.

All material phenomena can be applied in some way to be a cause, with a resultant effect--the question is, what effect?

Swallowing certain minerals, for example, could have any range of theorized effects, from acting as a placebo, to causing a chemical reaction, to causing an electro(magnetic) reaction, or simply causing the patient to choke a little on crunchy stuff and need Alka Seltzer later in the evening. It's logical to say, for example "I don't think crystals produce [x] effect," but not really logical to say "crystals have zero effect," which is the only reaction that tends to nag at me a little. But I guess even that's a reaction

zombiegirl

@LeonBasin Well, if you think his other stuff is generally a little better, I might check it out. I'm definitely a skeptic at heart, lol... Sometimes I'm just wary of everyone and their own personal agendas. It's not good to be too easily mislead, but it's also not good to be too close minded as well.

evolve

science explains a lot but at a point it narrows down to a huge mystery. science can explain certain things and why they act but then it never can answer deep enough to all the "whys" on anything. science or non-science, everything is still a wonder and a mystery.science isn't boring or definite if anything it just proves that nothing is completely proven, I think it's one of the most magical things out there

Dakini

Well, we know that swallowing ground gemstones has an energizing effect on ailing cells, because it's been observed in laboratory conditions. (see above-referenced film, earlier post). I say, hooray for the Germans and Austrians for not being close-minded about it, and dismissing the idea out of hand. Science is about investigating and testing, not about dismissing things out of hand.