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Can't find a solution to my sleepiness/dullness problem

In all of the meditation guides that I have read over the months, they say that when one becomes sleepy or get a feeling of dullness, one should observe those things mindfully. However, whenever I try to do this, my sleepiness does not go away. I get more than enough sleep a day (8 hours), and I feel like I am meditating correctly. What seems to be my problem then?

Comments

  • mmm i dont know. i confess when i have had a busy day at work and i'm feelin tired it's more than likely i will fall asleep during meditation lol no matter what i do.

    Back to your prob, don't forget meditation is a tool you should carry with you for life and one type of meditation may not always work for allsituations. Experiement with your practise maybe do shorter more frequent med' session or try some different types of meditation i.e guided or loving kindness etc

    But please don't stress over it, if you do you may undo the positive effects your med is having.

    I hope i have been atleast a teeny bit of help.

    All the best
    Jeffrey
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Extreme relaxation. Been there, no matter how attentive z z z . . .
    try chanting, may not be strong enough, walking or standing meditation. Change to meditating in tai chi movements for a while. Use a meditation bell, maybe on a phone every 5 mins
    I have seen this in experienced meditators - not unusual
    Jeffrey
  • Dullness is related to confusion as opposed to anger or craving. The three poisons are confusion, anger, and craving.

    Anger is like a one headed beast and if you can just catch it as anger you can let go of it and sever the head.

    Craving is like a multi-headed hydra and is harder than anger. For the hydra you use mindfulness to go into the craving and be it. You crucify yourself eventually, sit with the craving, but before that you may indulge many times while mindful. It is a hydra because say you resist food, then 1 hour later the need to have a thrill manifests as sex or even something simple as craving for a tea. Of course don't confuse craving for simple sense experience which even a Buddha can feel the beauty of the moon or a cup of tea.

    The third poison could be your dullness. This is the hardest one. To combat this one my teacher says to be spacious. Let there be space for your tiredness. You can go into the meditation and just allow drifting off to be there. Again and again and again. Make friends with the dullness and allow space for it. There is a fantasy of how great it would be if you were sharp and blissful. Allow that fantasy and make space for all of your feelings. I am kinda just guessing.

    Alternatively just yell PPHAAAT and wake up.
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    edited April 2014
    Here's what the Buddha said about sleepiness in meditation... more here
    Capala (Pacala) Sutta: Nodding
    Moggallana? Are you nodding?"

    "Yes, lord."

    "Well then, Moggallana, whatever perception you have in mind when drowsiness descends on you, don't attend to that perception, don't pursue it. It's possible that by doing this you will shake off your drowsiness.

    "But if by doing this you don't shake off your drowsiness, then recall to your awareness the Dhamma as you have heard & memorized it, re-examine it & ponder it over in your mind. It's possible that by doing this you will shake off your drowsiness.

    "But if by doing this you don't shake off your drowsiness, then repeat aloud in detail the Dhamma as you have heard & memorized it. It's possible that by doing this you will shake off your drowsiness.

    "But if by doing this you don't shake off your drowsiness, then pull both your earlobes and rub your limbs with your hands. It's possible that by doing this you will shake off your drowsiness.

    "But if by doing this you don't shake off your drowsiness, then get up from your seat and, after washing your eyes out with water, look around in all directions and upward to the major stars & constellations. It's possible that by doing this you will shake off your drowsiness.

    "But if by doing this you don't shake off your drowsiness, then attend to the perception of light, resolve on the perception of daytime, [dwelling] by night as by day, and by day as by night. By means of an awareness thus open & unhampered, develop a brightened mind. It's possible that by doing this you will shake off your drowsiness.

    "But if by doing this you don't shake off your drowsiness, then — percipient of what lies in front & behind — set a distance to meditate walking back & forth, your senses inwardly immersed, your mind not straying outwards. It's possible that by doing this you will shake off your drowsiness.

    "But if by doing this you don't shake off your drowsiness, then — reclining on your right side — take up the lion's posture, one foot placed on top of the other, mindful, alert, with your mind set on getting up. As soon as you wake up, get up quickly, with the thought, 'I won't stay indulging in the pleasure of lying down, the pleasure of reclining, the pleasure of drowsiness.' That is how you should train yourself.
    lobsterZerokrut
  • I would not stress it so much because it goes away over time, as it did for me.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited October 2012
    I assume you're doing some kind of concentration practice, following the breath or something like that.

    My approach to this was simply to remain with the object of attention for as long as possible, regardless of the drowsiness. I did not combat it. This led to an increasingly dull state of mind, but then after a while it would pass.

    I recently came across a sutra which has some recommendations:
    And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen? There is the potential for effort, the potential for exertion, the potential for striving. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen.
    There's also this:
    ...on occasions when the mind is sluggish, that is the right time to develop analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, persistence as a factor for Awakening, rapture as a factor for Awakening. Why is that? The sluggish mind is easy to raise up by those mental qualities.
    I found both of these in the chapter The Seven Factors for Awakening, in Wings to Awakening. I highly recommend it as a meditation manual, though it is a bit of a heavy read.

    I also came across another section which may be relevant:
    Another type of wrong concentration is one that a modern practice tradition, following DN 1, calls a state of non-perception (asaññi). In this state, which is essentially a concentration of subtle aversion — the result of a strongly focused determination not to stay with any one object — everything seems to cease: the mind blanks out, with no perception of sights or sounds, or of one's own body or thoughts. There is just barely enough mindfulness to know that one hasn't fainted or fallen asleep. One can stay there for long periods of time, and yet the experience will seem momentary. One can even determine beforehand when one will leave the state; but on emerging from it, one may feel somewhat dazed or drugged, a reaction caused by the intense aversive force of the concentration that induced the state to begin with. There are other forms of wrong concentration, but a general test is that right concentration is a mindful, fully alert state. Any state of stillness without clear mindfulness and alertness is wrong.
    I have since noticed that some of the dull states my mind falls into have this aversive quality.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    This may be a generality but...
    For many, torpor and lassitude seems to arise as meditative protection from facing what one is not yet able to deal with.
    I say this because of the amount of folks I've known who's journey beyond such sleepiness has only occurred after transitioning some pivotal life issue.
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    I think JamestheGiant post, including the Buddhas tips really should have something for you.
    The tea idea is good, sometimes I include mindful sipping of green tea in my meditation. Meditating first thing, rather than before sleep might help.
    Are you just getting sleepy or falling asleep? I literally fall asleep. This is what I have also observed in others. It does pass. I have never yet fallen asleep whilst doing walking meditation.
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    edited October 2012


    Here's what the Buddha said about sleepiness in meditation... more here



    Awesome :D Wonderfully comprehensive stay-awake guide!! The marketing team at Red Bull would be horrified!

    Love how it ends - if it really really really doesnt work then get some shut eye and start again - there's hope for us yet! ;)
  • From my experience, how we go about starting off our meditation is important too. When we start off, we want to relax our body and mind, but we need to be careful how we relax them. If we relax them too much, as we do when we try to get some sleep, we could drift off into sleep. Before you meditate, get motivated into it first, also try what others suggested like tea and stretching etc. Keeping the idea that it is not good to doze off in mind also helps.

    Best wishes
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    My teacher (a Tibetan lama) says that when we are having a lot of trouble with sleepiness or dullness while we are trying to meditate, that we should get up, move around a bit, splash some water on our face .. then go back and sit down again to continue meditating.
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