Afraid of my thoughts....help?

Snowpaw

Hey everyone,

I haven't posted here in a very very long time. I have a question, this issue is affecting me a lot... I'm terrified of my thoughts, I mean I get random thoughts that insult people for example, without me even actually intending or feeling to, I'm terrified that this creates bad karma. So no I'm terrified of my thoughts, I doubt that the dharma should create this anxiety in me, rather I think i have misinterpreted something on karma and thoughts. I'm terrified of the consequences of any unwholesome thoughts I have even though I do not act upon them

I really appreciate any help on this matter which is really affecting me,

misecmisc1

try to be in present moment. when you realize you are caught up in thought, that moment just cut the thought train, try to be in present moment at that time. then when again when a thought arises of the bad thought you just had and about the karmic effects of it, then just when you realize that these thoughts you are having, drop the train of thoughts and try to be aware of present moment. though it is easier to say and difficult to be in present moment awareness, but i think the effort is worth and the duration in which trying to be in present moment awareness, drops much of the anxiety and worries of life during that duration.

lobster

Offer your bad thoughts to the buddhas of the hell realms. They love that sort of thing. Having terrified or bad thoughts can not always be avoided, benefiting sentient beings by redirecting is always possible. You know how to do tonglen . . . so no worries for you and metta for the other realms . . .

driedleaf

Sometimes we entertain ourselves with random thoughts such as fantasies. Sometimes random thoughts come to us by themselves. Perhaps due to frequent invitation of thoughts that these random thoughts come often. Whatever the case, I think thoughts are harmless, but some people are afraid of thoughts just as they are afraid of guns. Its not guns themselves that do things, people use guns to do things. Thoughts by themselves don't harm anything, but sometimes people become attached to thoughts and identify with them that it causes them to do harm to others. I do believe that there is such thing as creating mental karma, but I think that that is more when we interpret certain things as real or facts, or identifying with them like the thoughts are ours.

Zero

Snowpaw said:

I'm terrified that this creates bad karma. So no I'm terrified of my thoughts,

I'm terrified of the consequences of any unwholesome thoughts I have even though I do not act upon them

I really appreciate any help on this matter which is really affecting me,

Terror is your fight:flight response working.

What are you fighting? or what are you escaping from?

Your fight:flight response is tuned to protect you from the threatening demands of your environment - if the response is kicking in, in inappropriate situations (did I just get away with using 'in' 3 times in a row??) then I think there are 2 strategies one can pursue:

1) To investigate the response itself - i.e. to look at what it is attached to, how it works, what the effects are - by better understanding the response itself, one can manage its effects in a more constructive way - this may reduce your response to fight:flight.

2) to investigate your thoughts on a subject that lead you to the response - i.e. look at how your thoughts lead you to a place where you are sufficiently threatened for the fight:flight to kick in - this may reduce the frequency and / or trigger of the response.

footiam

Either don't think or think only of good things.

zombiegirl

I think about it this way... all organs have a function in our body, right? Well, thoughts are the function of our brain (or rather, the mind influencing the brain). On a scientific level, they have found that what we think about influences our brain, forming new and stronger connections between neural pathways and synapses. It's called neuroplasticity.

So where you are right now with your unwanted thoughts is after years of environmental and self influence. Your brain is just wired how it is as a result of life. So, go ahead and forgive it because it's just doing what it's been trained to do. But more importantly, you have to realize that you are not your thoughts.

The good news is that on the flip side of neuroplasticity, you can change your perceived "bad" thoughts into ones that better reflect the life you want to live. Each time a negative thought creeps up, just say to yourself, "I am not my thoughts. This is not how I really feel." By disassociating with negative thoughts, your brain will begin to change physically and more positive neural pathways can begin to be strengthened. Over time you can and will change. Being aware of the negative thoughts is more than most people ever do. So feel good about recognizing it.

Check out this article: The Neuroscience Of Change--Or How to Reset Your Brain

how

Hey Snowpaw
I've got an awful cold and fuzzy mind but...
If your thoughts alone are hurting people, stop hanging out with clairvoyants.

If however your thoughts are dictating harmful actions, then consider
meditation as a practise that allows forms, sensations, thoughts, activities and consciousness to unfold freely from our habitual manipulation of them.
The karma is not in your noticing of such phenomenon but in how one then interacts with the phenomenon.
You do not need to feel responsible for an endless range of possible thoughts that can arise within the mind, just those that you nurture. You need not have a Karma worry from endless possible thoughts, just those ones that you choose to actively energize.

You are not your thoughts.

TreeLuvr87

I am constantly frightened by the violent, angry thoughts that pop into my head randomly. Just remember that those thoughts do not define anything about you or your actions. I use the visualization sometimes of myself meditating on an ocean floor, with all the thoughts being the water swirling over and around me, not really attaching to me in any place.

Be easy on yourself. Don't be afraid of the thoughts. Resisting them will increase them. Accept them, acknowledge them, greet them with love, and let them go. Over and over and over again lol.

Jeffrey

If in your heart of hearts you regret any negative thoughts towards others then it will go right eventually.

Snowpaw

So, thoughts themselves do not produce karmic consequences?
Is it that thoughts are important in terms of karma, because they are the motivation before an action? So if I have a random evil thought and I do not act upon it, that does NOT create negative karma? Whereas, if I have an evil thought, and then I carry it out, then that creates negative karma?

So what I'm asking is that whether thoughts themselves do not create negative karma, it's only if the thoughts are acted upon through word or action that karma takes effect?

Jeffrey

There is a connection between actions and thoughts. But the point where we try to stop bad karma is actions. You have a small amount of control over actions. And virtually no control over thoughts.

So it is too hard on yourself and useless to agonize due to thoughts. Thoughts are just arisings. If you have hurtful thoughts you don't have to do anything other than just notice the thought and then let go. The 'voices of lordly judgement' in your head are just empty sounds in your head.

Jason

Snowpaw said:

Hey everyone,

I haven't posted here in a very very long time. I have a question, this issue is affecting me a lot... I'm terrified of my thoughts, I mean I get random thoughts that insult people for example, without me even actually intending or feeling to, I'm terrified that this creates bad karma. So no I'm terrified of my thoughts, I doubt that the dharma should create this anxiety in me, rather I think i have misinterpreted something on karma and thoughts. I'm terrified of the consequences of any unwholesome thoughts I have even though I do not act upon them

I really appreciate any help on this matter which is really affecting me,

Here's my two cents. The initially arising of these thoughts can be viewed as the arising of old karma. These kinds of thoughts, whether skillful or unskillful, constantly bubble up to the surface for all sorts of reasons, and in and of themselves they don't create karma; it's what you do with them that matters.

Part of the practice is about being more aware of our mind and how it works so that we can figure out how to make our thoughts and deeds more skillful. When positive or skillful thoughts arise, it's generally safe to act on them. When negative or unskillful thoughts bubble up, though, we can try to do one of five things: we can try to think of something else that's more positive and skillful skillful (e.g., like bringing to mind something good about the person we're thinking ill of); we can try to think about the drawbacks and negative consequences of such thoughts (e.g., thinking about how bad we'd feel later if we acted on them now); we can try to ignore them; we can try to relax our discursive mind (e.g., focusing on the breath and calming both); and when all else fails, we can try to clench our teeth and "beat down, constrain, and crush" our mind with our awareness (MN 20).

maarten

I think I recognize your problem. Usually I see it as being tuned into a negative sphere: you are not producing these negative thoughts but you are tuned into them, so you receive them. In my experience (which may or may not apply to you), this can happen if you are not tuned in to more uplifting qualities such as kindness, generosity, compassion etc, but it does not mean that you are lacking those qualities! I do not believe you should be worried about bad karma from being tuned to these thoughts. What you could try is to ask the universe to help you change the channel, this works for me. You just ask that any being anywhere comes to help you tune into something more pleasant and wholesome. It can also help to imagine or visualize that you are receiving this help. If you change the channel, you will realise you have these qualities of compassion and kindness, and feel better.

Snowpaw

Thank you all so much for your posts. You've all really helped, thanks for freeing me from that stress from that wrong view.

pegembara

Snowpaw said:

So, thoughts themselves do not produce karmic consequences?
Is it that thoughts are important in terms of karma, because they are the motivation before an action? So if I have a random evil thought and I do not act upon it, that does NOT create negative karma? Whereas, if I have an evil thought, and then I carry it out, then that creates negative karma?

So what I'm asking is that whether thoughts themselves do not create negative karma, it's only if the thoughts are acted upon through word or action that karma takes effect?

I'm afraid thoughts also creates karma but the effects are likely to be light eg. you can't sleep well, there is guilt etc.

Karma is intention. Any intentional action whether by speech or action is preceded by thought.

http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_twin.htm

Tosh

Snowpaw said:

Hey everyone,

I haven't posted here in a very very long time. I have a question, this issue is affecting me a lot... I'm terrified of my thoughts, I mean I get random thoughts that insult people for example, without me even actually intending or feeling to, I'm terrified that this creates bad karma. So no I'm terrified of my thoughts, I doubt that the dharma should create this anxiety in me, rather I think i have misinterpreted something on karma and thoughts. I'm terrified of the consequences of any unwholesome thoughts I have even though I do not act upon them

I really appreciate any help on this matter which is really affecting me,

Are thoughts the root of the problem here? What about feelings? I was taught that feelings create intentions, and not only do they create intentions, they also condition them. But do feelings create thoughts? Could not feeling be the root problem here?

I know if I'm feeling peaceful and contented, my thoughts are pretty good ones, but if I'm feeling tired, grumpy, restless, irritable and discontented, then my thoughts are more likely to be unhealthy.

Just thinking aloud!

Jeffrey

@Tosh, I think the idea is to let thoughts be spacious so that they don't harden the condition, perhaps uncomfortable or down, of the feelings. If you feel bad and your thoughts make that seem set in stone the first stage is to just let your thoughts have space and not be taken as our master. We learn to see through the spell.

caz

Snowpaw said:

Hey everyone,

I haven't posted here in a very very long time. I have a question, this issue is affecting me a lot... I'm terrified of my thoughts, I mean I get random thoughts that insult people for example, without me even actually intending or feeling to, I'm terrified that this creates bad karma. So no I'm terrified of my thoughts, I doubt that the dharma should create this anxiety in me, rather I think i have misinterpreted something on karma and thoughts. I'm terrified of the consequences of any unwholesome thoughts I have even though I do not act upon them

I really appreciate any help on this matter which is really affecting me,

You have to distinguish what is a "Thought" and what is a "Delusion".

Thoughts are Intentional minds that arise through force, These Bear the Karma of intention.

Delusions can be like little people inside your mind constantly shouting something highly inappropriate they arise not through force but naturally, Therefore if you are mindful of what is going on in your mind you can recognise a delusion (which is an Inherently negative mind) and practice disassociating yourself from it.

If you are unmindful and you follow a delusion you will bear the karma of intention but if you reject unwholesome minds as soon as they arise as not mine/ not self then they will soon die.

A good way to avoid Constant delusional minds arising is to occupy your mind with virtue, For example you can concentrate on developing Loving kindness for others as a main practice and constantly wishing others happiness.

Jeffrey

@caz, above ^^ when you say thought are you meaning like a contemplation where you are analyzing something?

I have always been curious about the difference between insight and monkey mind. I never had a rule for division of those two other than I feel when insight is there you are so certain. But the catch is that when having all these delicious insights you could just be going down trail after trail and get lost to the mindfulness and sharp edge of awareness. There is a differences between a wandering analysis and an awake sharp thinking where there is attention and a precise ability to let go. Hard to explain.

caz

Jeffrey said:

@caz, above ^^ when you say thought are you meaning like a contemplation where you are analyzing something?

I have always been curious about the difference between insight and monkey mind. I never had a rule for division of those two other than I feel when insight is there you are so certain. But the catch is that when having all these delicious insights you could just be going down trail after trail and get lost to the mindfulness and sharp edge of awareness. There is a differences between a wandering analysis and an awake sharp thinking where there is attention and a precise ability to let go. Hard to explain.

When I say Thought @Jeffrey I mean an Intentionally developed mind such as I will go to the shops etc.

Its fairly easy to distinguish what is delusion in the mind, In fact most of it is but Generally its the grosser ones we need to be more aware of though such as deluded minds arising from attachment, Hatred, Aversion. Letting go of these minds is difficult once they arise they are like mosquitoes which is why mindfulness is like a band aid rather then a preventative, With mindfulness we can alter the course of our mind at current but I always find it better to have the mind concentrated on virtuous things so that it doesn't have room to pander to delusion and develop further non virtue.

This is why training in Lamrim and Lojong I find is essential for a peaceful and virtuous mind.

Jeffrey

Yes I've dabbled in lojong reading Trungpa and Pema Chodron. I have heard that these techniques are like cleaning the gutters of your mind so that the nature of mind can manifest above the noise of the afflictions and distractions. Like you say.

caz

Jeffrey said:

Yes I've dabbled in lojong reading Trungpa and Pema Chodron. I have heard that these techniques are like cleaning the gutters of your mind so that the nature of mind can manifest above the noise of the afflictions and distractions. Like you say.

It certainly cleans your mind and replaces non virtuous minds with virtuous ones which is the essence of Buddha teachings, Also Lojong is very easy to take out into daily life as well I never like to leave it behind

lobster

Thank you all so much for your posts. You've all really helped, thanks for freeing me from that stress from that wrong view.

Be gentle with yourself. Everything, even the thoughts of the 'wrong view' are just mind clutter. Easy come. Easy go. Reside in the Easy. Just fill your mind with a mantra if ever overwhelmed . . .

OM MANI PADME HUM

tmomerling

I find it's easy to get caught off guard by some of my thoughts. Instead of responding with alarm or distress I try and just acknowledge them, say hello then say goodbye. Like meditation 101 when you are trying to just meditate and thoughts intrude. Just acknowledge, let go and move on. This too shall pass

maarten

@Tosh, your mentioning of feelings reminds me of Eckhart Tolle's statement that feelings are the body's reaction to thoughts. In that case, the thoughts are the cause of the feelings.

lobster

It is also possible that thoughts are the result of physical arisings.
Part of the teachings of the 'mind, body, spirit' martial art I learned, was the idea that changing the body, changes the mind. they interplay. Think different and your physiology changes . . .
As for the spirit . . . no idea . . . :dunce:

bumblebee

Many people have OCD and suffer
from such attacking thoughts. I feel it
very unhelpful to overly religiousize
such afflicted states as such talk is often
pure guess work.

Wisdom23

Do not fear the brains default function is bad as it allows us to remember bad things so next time we can avoid them and thus survive. But that doesnt help i know lol so i will offer you this; next time u recognise those horrible nasty thoughts turn your attention outwards i.e what can you see, smell , hear,
touch ? and really focus on those sensations. the amout of times i walk around in my own thougjts lol its bad but bein mindful is amazballs lol

best of luck to you