What does it mean to give up desire?

music

Buddha says, give up desire because it is the cause of suffering. How does that translate in real life? A working person, for instance, should never seek promotion? A struggling actor shouldn't go to an audition? Because if they did, then that would mean they have a desire to be somebody in this world, a desire to be recognized, a desire for wealth etc. Must a person just live to take care of bodily needs, and not concern himself with anything else?

Wisdom23

For me i think it means be happy content in the here and now if you go for a promotion be happy with whatever fate falls upon you.

hope this helps

fivebells

@music, is this coming up for you in your practice?

vinlyn

@Music, this time you've asked a good and valid question.

For me, "giving up desire" doesn't mean giving up living. If it did, we'd have no doctors to heal the sick...just as one example.

For me, it's going too far when your goals begin to make up bend and break the other basic Buddhist principles, such as the Five Precepts and making yourself and others suffer.

robot

I don't think someone can give up desire. The understanding that one will have to give it all up because it is impermanent will reduce desire for things.
Striving to achieve that understanding in order to reduce the suffering from losing everything is what giving up desire means to me.
Living with the full time realization of emptiness would probably eliminate desire or grasping altogether.
Hopefully ones appreciation and enjoyment of people and things would remain intact. I believe it would.

Zero

music said:

Buddha says, give up desire because it is the cause of suffering.

How does that translate in real life? A working person, for instance, should never seek promotion? A struggling actor shouldn't go to an audition? Because if they did, then that would mean they have a desire to be somebody in this world, a desire to be recognized, a desire for wealth etc. Must a person just live to take care of bodily needs, and not concern himself with anything else?

I'm far from a 'what Buddha said....' expert - I'll leave that to others more qualified.

It appears on the face of it to be an instruction in the art of ceasing suffering.

How it translates to your real life is up to you and determined more by your outlook than what the Buddha may or may not have said.

Jeffrey

The desire is trustworthy. But the things that we try to fill that hole with are the problem. Desire itself is just the wish to be enlightened. When we try to find a 'thing' to give us enlightenment that is where the trouble begins.

I think.

lobster

Obsessive, addictive and destructive desire is lessened by practice. Beneficial desire, more metta based sexuality, desire for material well being for others and oneself can be 'desirable' for the lay practitioner.
Middle Way; not living on a grain of rice a day in a cave . . .

karasti

Desire can inspire you, or it can destroy you. Bill Gates had a lot of desire, no doubt, but look what good he's done with it. What you intend to do with the outcome, I think, is a good thing to think on and decide if it matches up with your beliefs. Only you truly know if a desire will inspire or destroy you, but being honest with yourself about it is usually the hardest part. Do you want the promotion because it's a job that helps more people? Because it means more money you can donate to help others? Or because you've wanted a Hummer and maybe now FINALLY you'll be able to get it and not have to deal with that dang Corolla you hate so much. Never being happy with what you have and always desiring more is where desire becomes harmful.

pegembara

"There is noth­ing taken up or rejected by him" or "he is neither attached to attachment, nor attached to detach­ment". There is no pull or push as it were.
If it comes, it comes; if it doesn't that is OK too.

Examples_

One has a disease and a cure is available. One accepts the treatment but if no cure is available the situation is accepted wholeheartedly without any struggle.

One enjoys the company of good friends. When time comes to part there are no regrets as all things must come to an end.

One enjoys being a leader but eventually someone younger and better qualified comes along. One gladly gives up the position. No pain, no hastles.

Gui

For me, personally, it means to not make distinctions.

Jason

music said:

Buddha says, give up desire because it is the cause of suffering. How does that translate in real life? A working person, for instance, should never seek promotion? A struggling actor shouldn't go to an audition? Because if they did, then that would mean they have a desire to be somebody in this world, a desire to be recognized, a desire for wealth etc. Must a person just live to take care of bodily needs, and not concern himself with anything else?

No, I don't think that's what's necessarily being pointed at here.

I think part of the issue is that people tend to conflate desire (chanda) and craving (tahna), and this is partially the fault of translators, but desire and craving are actually two different but closely related aspects of our psychology. Desire is a neutral term, and one generally has to have the desire to achieve a goal in order to achieve it, even nibbana (SN 51.15); whereas the Pali word for craving, tahna (literally 'thirst'), is something that's directly tied to suffering.

The second noble truth states that the origination of suffering is "the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming" (SN 56.11). As Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains in Wings to Awakening:

Craving for sensuality, here, means the desire for sensual objects. Craving for becoming means the desire for the formation of states or realms of being that are not currently happening, while craving for non-becoming means the desire for the destruction or halting of any that are. "Passion and delight," here, is apparently a synonym for the "desire and passion" for the five aggregates that constitutes clinging/sustenance [III/H/ii].

Desire, on the other hand, can be skillful (kusala) or unskillful (akusala) depending on the context. The desire for happiness, especially long-term welfare and happiness, is actually an important part of the Buddhist path. Moreover, desire is listed as one of the four bases of power (iddhipada), which themselves are included in the seven sets of qualities that lead to the end of suffering (MN 103). The four qualities listed in the bases of power are desire, persistence, intent, and discrimination. In Wings to Awakening, Thanissaro Bhikkhu points to this passage:

There is the case where a monk develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on desire & the fabrications of exertion, thinking, 'This desire of mine will be neither overly sluggish nor overly active, neither inwardly restricted nor outwardly scattered.' (Similarly with concentration founded on persistence, intent, and discrimination.)

He goes on to explain that, "This passage shows that the problem lies not in the desire, effort, intent or discrimination, but in the fact that these qualities can be unskillfully applied or improperly tuned to their task."

If we take a look at the exchange between Ananda and the brahmin Unnabha in SN 51.15, for example, we can see that the attainment of the goal is indeed achieved through desire, even though paradoxically, the goal is said to be the abandoning of desire. That's because at the end of the path desire, as well as the other three bases of power, subside on their own. As Ananda explains at the end of SN 51.15:

He earlier had the desire for the attainment of arahantship, and when he attained arahantship, the corresponding desire subsided. He earlier had aroused energy for the attainment of arahantship, and when he attained arahantship, the corresponding energy subsided. He earlier had made up his mind to attain arahantship, and when he attained arahantship, the corresponding resolution subsided. He earlier had made an investigation for the attainment of arahantship, and when he attained arahantship, the corresponding investigation subsided. (Bodhi)

So, essentially, desire can be beneficial in certain contexts, and you shouldn't worry too much about the desire to do skillful things. The real trick is learning to discern which desires are actually skillful (MN 61).

David

music said:

Buddha says, give up desire because it is the cause of suffering. How does that translate in real life? A working person, for instance, should never seek promotion? A struggling actor shouldn't go to an audition? Because if they did, then that would mean they have a desire to be somebody in this world, a desire to be recognized, a desire for wealth etc. Must a person just live to take care of bodily needs, and not concern himself with anything else?

It means quit daydreaming and get back to work.

This is how it is. Sure, maybe tomorrow will bring all kinds of rewards and maybe it will bring heartache but right now, it's time to get on with this.

That doesn't mean one shouldn't have ambition or an aim in life but that one shouldn't let these aims and ambitions determine their happiness.

That's easier for me to say than to realize I think though.

I am in the middle of changing career paths because I couldn't reconcile my job with right livlihood... I mean, it isn't causing more harm but it isn't helping either. I'd be lying if I said my own feeling of self worth wouldn't be affected if I couldn't make the switch.

I like to think I'm making progress tho.



@Jason;

That was realy well said, thank you.

footiam

music said:

Buddha says, give up desire because it is the cause of suffering. How does that translate in real life? A working person, for instance, should never seek promotion? A struggling actor shouldn't go to an audition? Because if they did, then that would mean they have a desire to be somebody in this world, a desire to be recognized, a desire for wealth etc. Must a person just live to take care of bodily needs, and not concern himself with anything else?

I don't really know what Buddha means when he says that but as a layman interested in Buddha's word, I would think that he means not to give up the act of desiring if it leads to goodness. For instance, seek promotion and the benefits but don't desire it. if you get the promotion, fine - maybe use it as a platform to do something good. If not, don't mope. We are only human. We need material things to live!

driedleaf

There are skillful desires that the Buddha talked about.

"And what, monks, is right effort? (i) There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (ii) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen. (iii) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (iv) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn45/sn45.008.than.html

"The second point that's often missed is that the noble truths give two roles to desire, depending on whether it's skillful or not. Unskillful desire is the cause of suffering; skillful desire forms part of the path to its cessation. Skillful desire undercuts unskillful desire, not by repressing it, but by producing greater and greater levels of satisfaction and well-being so that unskillful desire has no place to stand. This strategy of skillful desire is explicit in the path factor of right effort:"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/pushinglimits.html