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Stilling one's hatred or anger.
buddhafoot
Veteran
Do you have someone that you really don't like. Not to say that you dwell on your thoughts regarding how much you don't like them - but when you see them - your dislike is suddenly there and very apparent?
Sometimes I truly wonder how I'm ever going to get past this.
-bf
3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
Sometimes I truly wonder how I'm ever going to get past this.
-bf
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Comments
Yes. I have experienced this before. I have to admit that until I could work on my anger and dislike for this particular person, I was miserable. I have learned that expending my energy on disliking the person was upsetting me, not them! I had to chant and meditate as well as seek therapy but it finally worked. I still do not care for this person but I don't dwell on the past anymore. I had to learn to forgive and let go of my anger and dislike.
Adiana:usflag:
To further enhance my confusion, I have also performed tonglen for him, and wished him happiness and success.
I cannot reconcile these thoughts sometimes.
there is a line in my favourite book, 1984. which says,
"But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at
every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on
an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stamping on a human face — for ever.’
I think all of us have at some stage felt this way both as victim and as perpetrator.
If you hadn't had these thoughts, I'd be a lot more worried Brian. Compassion is to suffer 'with' and you know that he too has these thoughts, or at least fairly similar ones, as do we all at times. We share the same nature of mind - knowing that in itself is compassion. The whole world, "groaneth and travaileth in pain together, until now."
_/\_
metta
http://www.buddhachat.org/forum/showthread.php?t=362&page=6
Heplful in working through childhood abuse issues.
Upon further reflection, during this last volleyball season some of the parents were very difficult. When going into practice and approaching them I would say to myself, " May I meet you anew, so I am able to truly see you." I would then greet them as if first meeting. To do otherwise is to act within the minds conditioning. IMO
So the question is, " What does it take to go beyond my conceptions?"
I just listen to angry rock music and burn the excess energy off that way....a coping mechanism? Yes, but it works!!!!
Do I have a way of getting over it? Not really. I'm of the opinion that I should get over that niggling hope for happiness, and resign myself to what is.
I wouldn't say that I wish this person harm. I would have to say, in the past before my practice of the Path, there were times I wished I could inflict a portion of the physical pain this person inflicted upon me - but I'm past that. Now...? I just wish they didn't exist anymore. No harm - no pain - just that they weren't here.
The words I posted from the Dhammapada point directly at me. When situations arise where I have to deal with this person - I do the thing that Buddha taught is an indication that I have not stilled my hatred towards them.
Like Brian, I have (and do) practice tonglen regarding this person - and there is sincerety towards this person when I do practice tonglen regarding them. But, still that hatred lingers deep inside of me. I can even feel pity or compassion for them at times - but still, given the right circumstances, my hatred still lingers.
It's very difficult and it seems that this is a flaw in my practice that I am not able to get past this - or that I still react to their abusive/overbearing/passive-aggressive behavior.
-bf
P.S. Brian - those are some very vicious thoughts, my friend. Murder? Smashing their mouth in with a hammer?
But, that you can admit to these things makes me think that you are dealing with these issues on a mental level - instead of NOT dealing with them and possibly letting things build up to a point where you react to them on a physical level.
I can understand the pain you are going through. I've been through it, you are going through it and, sadly, it will be a condition that haunts and torments men and women while we still exist on this planet. My thoughts go out to you.
Let me know if you need to take a break and see a new climate
Anyhoo... I know of which you speak and I think some of your concern involves the safety and security of your loved ones.
Maybe part of our anger comes from our unrealized desire to continue hating or being angry with people who have harmed us.
-bf
Ooops....actually, I did that on purpose just for you.
And I think you are right about our anger coming from the desire to continue hating that person. But I could put that energy towards so many other better things, so that's what I am working on. And...since you know who I am referring to, I am actually leaving next weekend for the "meeting". Should be FUN. :bs:
I am thinking that practicing lovingkindness might be easier after our meeting.
You ain't doing or thinking anything that hasn't been thought of before, my friend.
I do have a futon in the basement where I meditate. I've got a latte machine. I've got sunshine in the part of the world I'm living in. You're always welcome for a little R&R.
-bf
Good luck with that, my sistah.
-bf
In that flash of rage we feel that both the subject, "I," and the object, the enemy, are solid and independent. Because we accept these appearances as in herently established, anger is generated. However, if at that first flash of rage you make use of reason to ask yourself. Who am I? Who is this one who is being hurt? What is the enemy? Is the enemy the body? Is the enemy the mind? This solidly existing enemy, who previously seemed to be in herently created as something to get angry at, and this "I" who was inherently created to be hurt, seem to disappear. And the anger breaks apart.
Think about it. We get angry at what foils our desires. Anger is fomented by the misconception that the object and yourself are established this way ( as enemy and victim) in and of themselves. Hatred is not part of the mind's foundation. It is an attitude without a valid foundaton. However, love is validly founded in truth. When , over a long period, an attitude that has a valid foundaton competes with an attitude that does not, the one with the valid foundation will overwhelm the other.
Qualities that depend on the mind can be increased limitlessly, and as you increase attitudes that counter distressing emotions, their unfavorable counterparts decrease, finally becoming extinguished altogether.
From: How to Expand Love by HHDL
Well, in most cases, the "I" that is being harmed is:
The man being struck and bleeding - in pain that is very real.
The woman being beaten and lying there in pain that is very real.
The child that is being physically or sexually abused - who will be dealing with pain for many, many years to come.
I will honestly attest that I do have some difficulty realizing some of the teachings of Buddha. So... I don't need anyone pointing out that shortcoming to me - I'm well aware of it
But... I sometimes feel that this idea of non-self, no "I", skandas (does everyone remember what those are from our quizes???) - that by overcoming this perception of self will mean that we don't feel physical pain.
For some of us, it's that "pain" and the suffering that went with it that makes this so difficult.
-bf
I'm not trying to be funny or facetious here...I just think that sometimes we set ourselves such strong objectives that maybe great Masters, Lamas, Gurus and Yogis don't even bother trying to attain...
In a discussion I had with someone with whom I closely worked, I remember that we arrived at this conclusion...
Occasionally, it actually disrupts and distracts us from our practise, to focus on a specific objective....
"I Must Practise Right Speech at all times"..... "I must Have Deep Unconditional Love and Compassion for so-and-so"...... "I must not Hate such-and-such-a-person".... because these grate against our very deeply held instincts and desires....
Perhaps then, we decided, it would be better to study and examine the teachings until something clicks...until we get the 'Ah'Haaaaah!' moment that sends us towards knowledge and practise.... it's hard to do something perfectly when we are all still novices....
Know that Unconditional Love and Universal Compassion are manifestations of years of accomplished practise and understanding.... That we need to educate ourselves as to the root stimulus of these qualities....but that until we understand, and have accomplished the research which will open our eyes, devoid of the Longing, then all we can do is the very best we can, with what we've got.
Let us know how you get on, YM....
F. xx
I'm sorry if I offended you............
I do know a little of what you are saying.........because I was one of those physically and sexually abused children. I know what that pain and suffering feels like first hand.
But I still think that peace can be found in HHDL's words once the bitterness is gone. Does it take years? Yes, but I found it.......I hope you can too.
Your post was very helpful to me, and I thank you.
inthedharma,
No, no, no.... no offense was taken nor did I think that you were implying offense.
I was just detailing my shortcomings in perceiving the wisdom and truth of the dharma.
-bf
-bf
We know.
I knew I could count on you for that.
-bf
It's been a while since I have picked on you, so that was too good to pass up.
Anyway, I've had anger and hate issues for such a long time but now that I think about it since I've been practicing Buddhism in general I haven't had any of those all consuming feelings of anger towards the people that I used to have such trouble with. I've also been tucked away in seclusion but still, I can do a lot of brooding in seclusion. So I understand what Fede was saying, too. It would have taken Michelangelo way too long to paint the Sistine Chapel if he'd focused too much on the smaller aspects of it. Go large and everything else will follow (?) I don't know. Good thread, BF.
To be wronged is nothing unless
you continue to remember it.
Confucius
You are not alone on this board. Growing up physically/mentally/sexually abused was tough. With my dad's passing, some of the issues are coming up again. That old anger over things that I can't change and things that will never happen now. I am taking it one day at a time right now as I'm not sure what I think or want or know or whatever.
All,
Two thoughts come to mind. First of all, in 12 step programs they refer to anger as the side of one coin, the other being fear. Since alcoholics/addicts have intense problems with these, it is discussed alot in meetings. Sometimes the reasons are tough to get at, sometimes they are on the surface. But what I've found over and over again it is the fear of not getting something you desire or you feel owed ("Sense of entitlement") that is usually at the helm. Now I don't believe the 12 step approach that addicts/alcoholics should shun anger. It's thought addicts can't handle anger. After 17 years sober, I still struggle with it. It would be insane of me to say that my anger over being abused is my fault. (Sorry, this is coming up alot in the past month. I'm stunned at how much it is) I do think there is a time to be angry and it being appropriate. How do we recognize injustice and deal with it?
Two, Thich Nhat Hanh said something that I carry in my back pocket. To paraphrase, he said that we should see those that anger us as fellow sufferers and then think of how we can be compassionate to them. The other night I had someone admitted who swallowed paint thinner and ended up on a vent. When he got off the ventilator, he was quite manipulative. I had to think what TNH said many times that night as it was so obvious this man was quite ill mentally.
But it can be applied to every day situations. Bad drivers, rude clerks, nasty nurses (NOT ME,
My dad was the one who physically abused me and some mental abuse. I try to remember that he was an abused child himself and compared to his father he made great improvements. Is it right, no.....but it helps me understand him knowing his history. It also made me a better parent because I was always aware that when you go on overload you walk away and calm yourself, before disciplining a child or teen. And because children of abusive parents are often times abusive themselves I kept a constant check on myself for fear I might do the same. I am able to forgive him because I do know his history and how his father was with him. I have had the advantage of being educated more on these subjects than my father would have been and I am more aware of repeating patterns.
As for the man who sexual abused me at the age of 9 and then continued to harass me for many years after was an employee of my fathers. I never told on him for the reasons children don't. He told me they would not believe me, I would get in trouble, He would hurt my family etc... My hatred for this man was so intense that I could not even express it in words........But once I became a Buddhist and started reading about hatred and anger I started to feel calmer about him. And now I feel no hatred towards him. I look at him as a very sick person who needed help. It helped me to raise my sons so that they felt comfortable with talking to me and told them what predictors will say to keep you from talking and not to listen to them ect...
I tried to take both things that happened to me and use it to help others. If you have not walked in someones shoes then you really don't know how they feel. These are two shoes I have walked in so I try and put it to good use. Not just with my own children but other children. It takes a village to raise a child and many children no longer have that so any child or teen that comes to me to talk I'm here for them and can understand what they are going thro.
These are the short versions of my stories but it gives you kind of an idea of what I went thro and how I have learned to deal with it and use it to help others so hopefully it won't happen to them.
Deb
I am so sorry for all you went through as a child. It is so heartbreaking to me to know that there are so many of us that have survived some sort of abuse as children. What a cruel world we live in! But like you, I have found some sort of relief in the fact that what happened to me as a child has made me the person I am today, and I am certainly a better parent for it! You sound like a wonderful mom, and it is so great that you have decided not to let the same pattern keep repeating itself. Most people that were abused do not take the time to recognize that.
My heart goes out to you and your family! You are a wonderful woman!
Kim
I know that compared to many children that my childhood was a walk in the park. My heart bleeds for those kids and what they must feel inside and the pain that they endure inside and out.
I look at it as maybe I went thro what I did because down the road I was needed to help someone else.
I have always worked with children. 1st in a hospital in a NICU then pedi. and later did licensed Day Care. I spend a lot of time with my son's friends as a friend and advisor. Sometimes they just need someone to listen...just really listen to what they have to say...........and be there when they need to talk. I'm honored to have had the privilege of being that person for several wonderful teens and young adult.
I have forgiven my father for what he did. I am sure this is short term because of his passing. One thing I must say though is no one's abuse is worse than someone else's. It is all horrible what adults can do to children. Comparing belittles someone's experience and we've had enough of that from the hands of perpetrators.
I decided not to have children. I don't want to harm another child. When I realized I would probably make a pretty good dad, I was 40. A bit late imho to start a family. I'm taking Palzang's advice and showing kindess and compassion to all to try and stop the karmic waves from causing more damage. My little part to help the world.
I'm glad that you've come to peace with it. I'm meditating more to try and get my head together. Plus I need the peace and quiet.
It's all those little parts that will change the world, Jer.
Palzang