Fifth step of the Eightfold Path?

Stormer

I am considering converting Buddhism and just had a question. I don't have any other Buddhist community of any type anywhere nearby and after seeing how nice and insightful everyone on here seems to be, I thought this would be a good place to ask it.

Anyway, I was wondering about whether or not you are going against the fifth step, support yourself without harming others if you had to choose to either die or break it. For example if you were lost in the wilderness and had to eat something to survive or if someone was trying to hurt you.

Cole_

It is possible to find plants that can be eaten to survive, and it is possible to defend yourself without attacking. We can only do the best we can do.

federica

Stormer said:

I am considering converting Buddhism and just had a question. I don't have any other Buddhist community of any type anywhere nearby and after seeing how nice and insightful everyone on here seems to be, I thought this would be a good place to ask it.

Anyway, I was wondering about whether or not you are going against the fifth step, support yourself without harming others if you had to choose to either die or break it. For example if you were lost in the wilderness and had to eat something to survive or if someone was trying to hurt you.

This question is completely hypothetical. It's like the question, "If a tiger attacked me would I be breaking a precept if I killed it?" :rolleyes:

I suggest you wait until you are lost in the wilderness, then come back and tell us how YOU managed to survive.
Until then, I think you'll find that focussing on the 8Fold Path and keeping the Precepts is a great enough challenge in your ordinary, everyday normal day-to-day life, let alone in the imaginary scenario of being in the middle of the kalahari.....

karasti

Don't go in the wilderness without being well prepared I spend a fair amount of time in wilderness that you might not see another person for weeks at a time and there is no cell phone coverage. So far, I've not gotten lost, lol. But, if I did, at this point in my practice I wouldn't hesitate to fish to stay alive. I'd have to be in pretty dire straits to eat bugs or to hunt, but that's unlikely to happen anyhow. Perhaps later in my practice, I will rather die than catch a fish to survive. Right now, my desire to return safely to my kids would be a higher priority. We just make the best decisions we can any given day, with the information we have and the stage of our practice.

Ideally, we practice frequently with the tools we have to make small decisions in our every day lives, so that when the big, difficult decisions come, we are that much more capable of making them wise decisions.

Jeffrey

My teacher's student said they had gotten into animal husbandry and needed it to survive. My teacher noted that they could do whatever was possible to treat the animals well, because they were probably the only connection to the dharma for the animals. She noted that without the industry there wouldn't be these animals, but then the animals would just be born in a different world to express their karma anyhow.

So I guess whatever practices you have to do to survive just do your best to uphold and spread the dharma. The animal husbandry couple might be on the lookout to change industries, but until then they could treat the animals well and make prayers for them and so forth.

BhikkhuJayasara

Stormer said:

I am considering converting Buddhism and just had a question. I don't have any other Buddhist community of any type anywhere nearby and after seeing how nice and insightful everyone on here seems to be, I thought this would be a good place to ask it.

Anyway, I was wondering about whether or not you are going against the fifth step, support yourself without harming others if you had to choose to either die or break it. For example if you were lost in the wilderness and had to eat something to survive or if someone was trying to hurt you.

I think the question is a bit mixed up... finding yourself in a survival situation is different then making a living, which is what right livelihood is all about. there are a few aspects of right livelihood other then what your job is.. including managing your budget etc. Check out Right livelihood at accesstoinsight

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-ajivo/index.html

these are the main jobs to avoid -

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

and also -

"Herein, Vyagghapajja, a householder knowing his income and expenses leads a balanced life, neither extravagant nor miserly, knowing that thus his income will stand in excess of his expenses, but not his expenses in excess of his income.

"Just as the goldsmith, or an apprentice of his, knows, on holding up a balance, that by so much it has dipped down, by so much it has tilted up; even so a householder, knowing his income and expenses leads a balanced life, neither extravagant nor miserly, knowing that thus his income will stand in excess of his expenses, but not his expenses in excess of his income."

taiyaki

Does it bring calm, peace, and more freedom?

Yay or nay.

That is up to your investigation and your life to figure out.

seeker242

Stormer said:

Anyway, I was wondering about whether or not you are going against the fifth step, support yourself without harming others if you had to choose to either die or break it. For example if you were lost in the wilderness and had to eat something to survive or if someone was trying to hurt you.

The best way to keep this precept is to be mindful enough so that you don't find yourself in that kind of situation to begin with.

lobster

In an ideal world we would live on nuts and berries that had been freely given after gaining permission from tree and bush . . . we can be breatharians, vegans, vegetarians or . . . a decadent Buddhist like me and eat what my family prefer . . .which includes fish and carcasses. I could decline and eat only boiled nettles . . .
It is as pointed out best to be kind to animals down to the last flea . . . and potential Buddha . . . you too are a Potential Buddha . . . you can trust your judgement . . .