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There is no Buddhist behaviour.

Oh, there are the precepts which tell us what NOT to do, and even they need interpreting, and are training rules rather than commandments.
But there is no Buddhist position on most issues. Take something contentious like abortion. There are sincere, practising Buddhists on both sides of the argument.
Likewise with capital punishment. One of the pioneers in disseminating Buddhism to the west was a judge who passed the death sentence a number of times.
On western Buddhist websites there appears to be a preponderance of leftist view however in the wider non cyber world this is not the case.
Perhaps part of the problem is the fact that we call the teachings of the Buddha ..BuddhISM..we have made an ism of it. We have made " ists" of Dharma followers.
That ism and that ist are modern constructs..In the language of the ancients there was the Buddhadharma..The Buddha's Dharma.
Which led to Awakening..if society benefited then that was good.
But meat eaters, the wealthy, murderers, alcoholics, prostitutes and drug addicts number among the Awakened..
Not of course BECAUSE they were wealthy. murderers, etc..in fact they could be said to have stacked the odds against themselves.
Awakening cannot be earned by virtue..although vice may delay it.
Awakening happens by realising our original nature, and that happens by seeing things as they are.
Wisdom23TheEccentricMaryAnne

Comments

  • agreed buddhism isnt really a dogmatic religion, but this is merely a misconception as someone with little concept of buddhism and only knows western religions which are primarily dogmatic. i always say to myself that buddhism is about clearing and settling our mind to make way for wisdom.

    Good thread and i hope my brief comment helps al the best
    CittaTheEccentric
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Of course there is "Buddhist Behaviour"...!

    What do you call the 8Fold Path, but a series of signposts on the best way 'to go'...?
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Citta said:

    On western Buddhist websites there appears to be a preponderance of leftist view however in the wider non cyber world this is not the case.

    So Buddhists who don't use the internet are right wing?
    ;)
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited January 2013
    federica said:

    Of course there is "Buddhist Behaviour"...!

    What do you call the 8Fold Path, but a series of signposts on the best way 'to go'...?

    I would call that a guide to Dharmic behaviour..and I dont think that is hair-splitting.

    "Buddhism " is a series of social and cultural constructs that partially correspond to Buddhadharma .
    That at least is the Dzogchen view.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    There is, fortunately therefore, more than just the Dzogchen View, and opinions differ.


    Buddhism is founded on the Dharma. Therefore,the Dharmic behaviour IS Buddhist behaviour.
    "Buddhism " is a series of social and cultural constructs that partially correspond to Buddhadharma .
    I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what on earth you're talking about here.....
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    Citta said:

    Perhaps part of the problem is the fact that we call the teachings of the Buddha ..BuddhISM..we have made an ism of it. We have made " ists" of Dharma followers.

    Hi Citta,

    It's not clear to me exactly what the problem is. Can you clarify what the problem is?
    Citta said:

    That ism and that ist are modern constructs..In the language of the ancients there was the Buddhadharma..The Buddha's Dharma.

    "ism and ist" may merely be modern semantics.
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited January 2013
    well with regards to abortion I do know that it is technically considered murder and In the vinaya a monastic is not allowed to help in procuring one, etc. This stems from the knowledge in the suttas that it is considered life at conception. This is at least in Theravada. Its also in there that a monk can't kill a plant.

    Of course it doesn't need to be said that we don't judge and condemn people for that or anything. This is why following the path is amazing because it isn't dogmatic and full of guilt and punishment. We want to do skillful and beneficial things because we see through our own experience that this is the way this is the way to go, and when we screw up, we take it as a lesson and work to be better next time.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    There is no Buddhist position on capital punishment? I don't see how that can be the case when capital punishment = killing. There is certainly a Buddhist position on killing and not killing. It clearly says "Do not kill".

    :om:
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    seeker242 said:

    There is no Buddhist position on capital punishment? I don't see how that can be the case when capital punishment = killing. There is certainly a Buddhist position on killing and not killing. It clearly says "Do not kill".

    Perhaps that is where interpretation comes in. Think back to our discussion about a monk and self-immolation. No where (that I'm aware of) does the Dhamma specifically discuss capital punishment or abortion. Yet, we each translate the intent in certain ways. Same way as in how different Buddhists look at eating meat.

  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited January 2013
    Clearly I failed to make my point..for which i take responsiibilty. Probably best closed.
  • Jayantha said:

    well with regards to abortion I do know that it is technically considered murder and In the vinaya a monastic is not allowed to help in procuring one, etc. This stems from the knowledge in the suttas that it is considered life at conception. This is at least in Theravada. Its also in there that a monk can't kill a plant.

    Of course it doesn't need to be said that we don't judge and condemn people for that or anything. This is why following the path is amazing because it isn't dogmatic and full of guilt and punishment. We want to do skillful and beneficial things because we see through our own experience that this is the way this is the way to go, and when we screw up, we take it as a lesson and work to be better next time.

    I had a very upset and confused young woman approach me, here in Australia, recently wanting to discuss abortion ( actually she is pregnant and this was unplanned ). Her initial intention was for me to tell her what she could and couldn't do from a Buddhist perspective as she knew of my practice and told me she wanted an opinion from a religious point of view.

    We spent time talking about her situation, which like most was complex and there were many different ways of looking at how to make decisions regarding the best way forward and I saw this as being the Buddhist thing to do in this situation.

  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    edited January 2013
    Ultimately the "Buddhist thing to do" is simply what most Buddhists do, and most Buddhists are ordinary folks, so, the Buddhist thing to do is what people usually do.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    So all these precept and vows are not part of Buddhist behaviour ? Morale discipline is an integral part of Buddhadharma. I think perhaps your Dzogchen view is distorting the importance the teachings of morale discipline which are an essential part of The foundation teachings, The Bodhisattva's way of life and the morale discipline of Tantra.
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    Morale discipline is an integral part of society...
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    We should distinguish between morale and morals. I'm not being picky...the two words are completely different in meaning.
  • NevermindNevermind Bitter & Hateful Veteran
    Nit picking is not good for morale.
    Craig86Barra
  • BhikkhuJayasaraBhikkhuJayasara Bhikkhu Veteran
    edited January 2013
    andyrobyn said:

    Jayantha said:

    well with regards to abortion I do know that it is technically considered murder and In the vinaya a monastic is not allowed to help in procuring one, etc. This stems from the knowledge in the suttas that it is considered life at conception. This is at least in Theravada. Its also in there that a monk can't kill a plant.

    Of course it doesn't need to be said that we don't judge and condemn people for that or anything. This is why following the path is amazing because it isn't dogmatic and full of guilt and punishment. We want to do skillful and beneficial things because we see through our own experience that this is the way this is the way to go, and when we screw up, we take it as a lesson and work to be better next time.

    I had a very upset and confused young woman approach me, here in Australia, recently wanting to discuss abortion ( actually she is pregnant and this was unplanned ). Her initial intention was for me to tell her what she could and couldn't do from a Buddhist perspective as she knew of my practice and told me she wanted an opinion from a religious point of view.

    We spent time talking about her situation, which like most was complex and there were many different ways of looking at how to make decisions regarding the best way forward and I saw this as being the Buddhist thing to do in this situation.

    A situation like that and the choice to be made is an intensely personal one and she will ultimately have to make her own decision. I'm not sure how I would approach that if someone came to me asking. I think in situations like that most people just need someone to lend an ear to listen. I think i'd just make sure she is aware of all her options and that she would ultimately have to make her own decision, or if she is a minor she should involve her parents.
    vinlyn said:

    We should distinguish between morale and morals. I'm not being picky...the two words are completely different in meaning.

    Morale is for military generals..:P
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    vinlyn said:

    We should distinguish between morale and morals. I'm not being picky...the two words are completely different in meaning.

    Ooops :)

  • Nevermind said:

    Ultimately the "Buddhist thing to do" is simply what most Buddhists do, and most Buddhists are ordinary folks, so, the Buddhist thing to do is what people usually do.

    I agree. Along the same lines this is why I don't often find wanting or needing to identify as a Buddhist ... another year along I am still no closer to understanding what saying I am a Buddhist would mean.

    sndymorn
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