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Is Samsara and other a "neccesary" belief for a Western Buddhist?

TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
I am an agnostic on Samsara, because there is no way of knowing what happens when we die and there is no evidence for it so I do not see why I should believe in it, I also reject the other "magical" elements that are followed Buddhism such as the different Deities because I just don't see how it is possible for being like that to exist and the chakras. Is it Black and White that you have to believe in them?

Comments

  • Probably you should mention here the different dieties as you might be misunderstood those bodhisavatta etc representing your compassion and wisdom in Buddhism faculty. As for samsara, you can evidently trying on a food that you love most, and eat as much as you can until you can't put it in anymore, continue to stuff in it even your stomach is overfilled. Or you may go swimming and ditch yourself into the water holding your breath as long as you could until you reach a climax that you call for help...
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric Hampshire, UK Veteran
    Deepankar said:

    Probably you should mention here the different dieties as you might be misunderstood those bodhisavatta etc representing your compassion and wisdom in Buddhism faculty. As for samsara, you can evidently trying on a food that you love most, and eat as much as you can until you can't put it in anymore, continue to stuff in it even your stomach is overfilled. Or you may go swimming and ditch yourself into the water holding your breath as long as you could until you reach a climax that you call for help...

    I know that the Bodhisattvas are just personifications of things like compassion but there are tantric deities like the Heruka which I don't believe in.

  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran

    Deepankar said:

    Probably you should mention here the different dieties as you might be misunderstood those bodhisavatta etc representing your compassion and wisdom in Buddhism faculty. As for samsara, you can evidently trying on a food that you love most, and eat as much as you can until you can't put it in anymore, continue to stuff in it even your stomach is overfilled. Or you may go swimming and ditch yourself into the water holding your breath as long as you could until you reach a climax that you call for help...

    I know that the Bodhisattvas are just personifications of things like compassion but there are tantric deities like the Heruka which I don't believe in.

    You might wish to study the Heat Sutra with a commentary such as "New Heart of Wisdom" When you come to understand emptiness you will see you Dont exist either, All is just mere appearance like that of a dream, You, Me and Heruka exist in the same way with exception that Heruka has an enlightened mind.
    TheEccentricInvincible_summer
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2013

    I am an agnostic on Samsara, because there is no way of knowing what happens when we die and there is no evidence for it so I do not see why I should believe in it, I also reject the other "magical" elements that are followed Buddhism such as the different Deities because I just don't see how it is possible for being like that to exist and the chakras. Is it Black and White that you have to believe in them?

    If you don't buy certain elements of Buddhism, that's perfectly fine by me. I personally don't see any problem with it. It should be noted, however, that the concept of samsara isn't necessarily limited to post-mortem rebirth; it can also be viewed in terms of our experience in the present in the context of what's often called 'moment-to-moment rebirth.'

    For example, one moment of consciousness conditions the arising of next (rebirth), just as one action conditions the quality of feeling a moment of consciousness cognizes (kamma); and in this process, moment-to-moment rebirth refers to the arising and ceasing of our sense of self, the ephemeral 'I,' which is ultimately the product of what the Buddha called a process of 'I-making' and 'my-making' (ahankara-mamankara) and something that's readily observable in the here and now.

    According to the texts, a beginning point to samsara (literally 'wandering on') isn't evident (SN 15.3). The way I see it, this can be interpreted two ways — that a beginning point to the continual cycle of death and rebirth of beings isn't evident, or that a beginning point to the continual cycle of death and rebirth of the conceit 'I am,' the self-identification that designates a being (satta), isn't evident — and they're not mutually exclusive.

    In my opinion, if you choose to not to accept the idea of post-mortem rebirth, the cycle of births and deaths that are said to take place due to the presence of craving in mind, you can still apply the general concept to your present experience, observing how mental processes continually arise and cease, particularly our sense of self—something that's always in flux, ever-changing from moment to moment in response to various internal and external stimuli.

    Just something to consider in the course of your study and practice.
    lobsterInvincible_summer
  • I am an agnostic on Samsara, because there is no way of knowing what happens when we die and there is no evidence for it so I do not see why I should believe in it, I also reject the other "magical" elements that are followed Buddhism such as the different Deities because I just don't see how it is possible for being like that to exist and the chakras. Is it Black and White that you have to believe in them?

    Nothing makes sense until experience screams at you. Then our views and our perception of reality has to change. So experience always trumps view and then from that experience the view changes and then experiences keeps moving us around.

    I used to feel the same in regards to the heavy agnosticism. But now I recognize what samsara or dualistic thinking and grasping is. I also recognize that the deities are aspects of ourselves and that the chakras are the enlightened energy of everything.

    To help you out in regards to energy. Have you ever felt anger? Not as an idea but in the body. There is a massive surge of energy. This is chakra activity.

    Anyways there are no necessary beliefs in Buddhism. You use what works.
    lobsterInvincible_summerSile
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