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Input needed on teachers, groups, etc.
I've been exploring Buddhism since the fall, and I feel like it is time for me to start being more serious about practice. I've been doing a lot of reading, started trying to live more in line with Buddhist ethics, and have been experimenting with meditation. But, it's time to move forward. I really feel like finding a sangha would be very helpful in staying focused and motivated, as well as being able to have questions answered. Here lies the difficulty...
I'm interested in both Pure Land and Zen. I've always been very drawn to Pure Land, but I've also really enjoyed and gotten a lot out of the books I've read on Zen. Furthermore, both have been practiced together in China for a long time, so they aren't incompatable -- this is what I would ultimately like to do, combine Zen and Pureland practices. There are no places around here for Pureland, but there are Zen centers. I went to an intro class at a local Zen center that looked promising. However, it turned out not to be a very good fit for me. I appreciated the meditation instruction I got, since it really helped with my posture and having gone, I feel much more confident dropping in at other places. However, we seem to have a fairly fundemental difference in philosophy since this particular center does not in fact consider themselves to be Buddhist, and quite honestly, I felt like the teacher's attitude towards Buddhists and Buddhism as a religion to be well, rather dismissive. It did not make this self proclaimed Buddhist feel very comfortable. There are other Zen centers in my area, but they all seem to be affiliated with this one.
This weekend I'm going to go check out another place that is Buddhist, but multi-denominational -- everybody comes and meditates in their own tradition. If this works out, it could provide a supportive environment, but not a Zen teacher specifically. I know that Zen really stresses the need for a teacher which is what has me stumped. I don't know if I should try practicing with this group and on my own or if I should try something other than Zen. What is more important -- having a teacher, or following the tradition that you are most interested in? There is always a possibility that I could practice on my own and the situation here could change, but there's no guarantee. I might have just dropped Zen altogether in favor of only Pure Land, but learning how to actually sit properly has really inspired me.
I'm interested in both Pure Land and Zen. I've always been very drawn to Pure Land, but I've also really enjoyed and gotten a lot out of the books I've read on Zen. Furthermore, both have been practiced together in China for a long time, so they aren't incompatable -- this is what I would ultimately like to do, combine Zen and Pureland practices. There are no places around here for Pureland, but there are Zen centers. I went to an intro class at a local Zen center that looked promising. However, it turned out not to be a very good fit for me. I appreciated the meditation instruction I got, since it really helped with my posture and having gone, I feel much more confident dropping in at other places. However, we seem to have a fairly fundemental difference in philosophy since this particular center does not in fact consider themselves to be Buddhist, and quite honestly, I felt like the teacher's attitude towards Buddhists and Buddhism as a religion to be well, rather dismissive. It did not make this self proclaimed Buddhist feel very comfortable. There are other Zen centers in my area, but they all seem to be affiliated with this one.
This weekend I'm going to go check out another place that is Buddhist, but multi-denominational -- everybody comes and meditates in their own tradition. If this works out, it could provide a supportive environment, but not a Zen teacher specifically. I know that Zen really stresses the need for a teacher which is what has me stumped. I don't know if I should try practicing with this group and on my own or if I should try something other than Zen. What is more important -- having a teacher, or following the tradition that you are most interested in? There is always a possibility that I could practice on my own and the situation here could change, but there's no guarantee. I might have just dropped Zen altogether in favor of only Pure Land, but learning how to actually sit properly has really inspired me.
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Comments
If it's to feel comfortable, then the group you experienced is not for you.
If it is to explore what you have not yet been able to uncover on your own, then consider that the teacher might not be inclined to support an identity (in this case Buddhist) if it is an impediment of attachment that you are presenting to them. This is especially true if others in the congregation are also struggling with this issue. Dismissive or Skillful??? This is a perfect question for a meditative examination..
Some Zen centers do consider a Buddhist identity to just be another aspect of ego that needs to be let go of but if a Zen center doesn't adhere to the Buddhist fundementals (4 NT,8 fld path, dependant origination, precepts) then they should find a more appropriate name to call themselves. It doesn't mean that they are not a valid practise of some kind, just miss labeled.
As for this point: I think you have to understand that many Zen teachers feel that, ultimately, Buddhist practice is really just being present and engaged in everyday life. There isn't anything sacred (in the common usage of the word) or incredibly special about zazen or Buddhism. It's simply a practice that, with time, brings out one's True Nature/Buddha Nature. The line of thought goes on (as @how mentioned) to suggest that being attached to what a "Buddhist should be" or what a "Buddhist is" is just externalizing our own assumptions and expectations and judgments. The point is not to be a "good Buddhist," but just to be what is most natural.
That being said, a Chinese Chan + Pure Land sangha may have very different opinions than the one put forward by @how and myself.
I get what some of you are saying about identity and ego -- if it had been presented in that way, I would have had no issue with it. That did not seem to be what was going on. What was flat out said was that the Buddha did not intend for people to make him a god (I don't know of any form of Buddhism that says the Buddha is a god, so a misunderstanding on his part???) nor make what he taught into a religion. But people made it into a world religion and created in and out groups etc (basically behaved like humans). The tone was pretty condenscending, and that was what made me uncomfortable. Also mentioned that people contact them asking about Buddhism because they assume the center is Buddhist, so they have to go try and find someone who is Buddhist to talk to them.
No mention was made of the 4NT, 8FP, or precepts. I do know that you can take precepts there, because there was a schedule from a weekend retreat on the wall that included that ceremony. Someone asked what the rakusa was that he was wearing and he answered rather vaguely that it signified making a greater committment. No further explanation given. They didn't used to use any Buddhist iconography or things like rakusa, but began doing so again out of respect for their lineage (which happens to be Korean), though they are now their own school doing their own thing. The entire 3 hour class was given over to instruction on seated mediation (getting to try out different postures and cushions under some guidence was very helpful), a brief overview of Siddartha's life and attempting to put distance between the center and Buddhism. In doing so, he (inadvertantly, I hope) made actual Buddhists seem rather silly.
What it seemed to me was that they are trying to create a form of Western Zen that is largely divorced from the framework of Buddhism. It's the kind of thing I'm sure some people can get a lot out of (meditation is good for you, after all), but it's not what I'm looking for and like how suggested, misslabeled.
There are other Zen centers within driving distance, but they are all affiliated with this one and list the same guy as their teacher. Ironically there is actually a center that practices a mix of Zen and Pureland, but... it is at the complete other end of the state -- definitely not within driving distance. So yeah, that's my dilemma.
Maybe you're aiming too high. Lower your expectations.
:wave:
:wave:
Philosophical Taoism (writings of Laozi and Zhuangzi) is very congruous with Chan/Zen Buddhism, but the religious branch of Taoism is indeed different. Adherents to religious Taoism claim that doing certain rituals and living a certain way will give them immortality. They're also polytheistic, I believe.
But a qualified, skilled teacher ... is a huge advantage.
You observe how they react when someone stands up in a public lecture and tells them they are full of s***.
You observe how they behave when they are very ill but there is a duty to fulfill.
You observe how they attend to the needs of others, no matter how small.
You observe how they accept us, flaws and all ... never feeling they need to correct us.
You observe how, when a student disagrees with something the teacher is teaching, the teaching gently says "You might be right", or "I'll have to think about that".
You observe how they are thoroughly and in all circumstances humble and non-confrontatious.
It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words.
If that is so, then a living example is worth a million words.
You will grasp and understand things, on an experiential level, that no book can teach you.
And because even the most skillful of teachers is not-yet-enlightened, they slip up and show flaws occasionally (twice in 12 years for my own teacher) .. so there again they teach you. They teach you to be tolerant and compassionate and understanding, and not be rigid.
What is crucial is a qualified teacher. There are so many people who find a teacher and rush in where angels fear to tread, only to find out later that the teacher is not suitable.
There are guidelines to a good teacher - it is good to check out the lineage of the teacher - who was his teacher? what is the lineage? Is it authentic, or did this person decide to make up his own school of thought. Not that that is necessarily wrong, but it may be something to consider. What tradition is he in - this is not to say one is better than the other but if you see what tradition it is, you know the emphasis of the particular school and background.
This book called "Gurus For Hire, Enlightenment for Sale" is an excellent guide to what is a Guru and why do you need one. It also raises controversial points like politics of dharma centres and appropriate behavior for volunteers in dharma centres. A super read!
http://vajrasecrets.com/books/english-books/gurus-for-hire-enlightenment-for-sale.html
or on amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Gurus-Hire-Enlightenment-Tulku-Rinpoche/dp/9834339984