Not our thoughts/karma?

Sabby

Just something I thought of while watching the movie Unknown last night where the main character undergoes memory loss due to hitting his head in a car crash:

Memory loss is a good example of how we are not our thoughts, one may live a life of cruel intentions and terrible deeds, and with the blink of an eye, lose all memory of these past events. So you suddenly, awake in the hospital and you discover of these bad things you have done, but you do not identify with them and they don't define you in any way whatsoever. Your thoughts and memories of which you identified with have been erased and YOU, who has ridden of these thoughts (with some help lol) are not any longer these thoughts and therefore NOT this person who did these things.

I suppose it is sort of like being reborn and you are still subject to the karma of your past deeds? although you have the choice of completely changing your ways for the positive.

Any thoughts

Tosh

I've done drunken stuff in blackout - no memory of which what-so-ever - and felt bad about it when I was told the next day.

It starts when you regain consciousness and Mrs Tosh says, "Do you know what you did last night?"

But I guess if I didn't know what I'd done, ever, then there would be very little karmic effect; however maybe there would be uncertainty and that would produce karma.

Interesting topic about the nature of self; I look forward to reading more knowledgeable replies.

Silouan

The Buddha stated that this topic is more challenging than that of voidness, and as such we have many interpretations and commentaries on it.

I don't consider myself very knowledgeable, and was intrigued about this very same question a few days ago.

I currently think that thoughts are manifestations of our Karma, and when speaking about karma we are really speaking about a very subtle level of consciousness where it originates. Not our normal understanding of consciousness or sub-consciousness, but something far more deep and mysterious in a sense.

Karma, in a sense would be like conditioned or habitual urges we experience, and if we choose to act upon them they are re-enforced through our thoughts, words, and deeds be they positive, negative, or neutral.

The strength of our actions in conditioning our Karma are determined by many factors from arising to completion of which intention and gratification are very important.

We always have a choice in responding to the urges, but some urges are particularly heavy and don't provide us much space to work with, but that would be the point of our practice.

Karma feeds action and action feeds karma, so this would be cyclic existence or Samsara, and Samsara is in the mind.

Sabby

Thankyou for the replies!

Dandelion

Surely if you suffer memory loss, it is because of Karma in the first place? Not that I know what it might have been that you could do in a past life to induce such Karma..

Dandelion

@Sabby 'The Vow'.. a rom com about a woman that loses her memory in an accident, based on real events, here is an interview with the couple that the film was based on:http://www.reelz.com/trailer-clips/61783/the-real-life-couple-behind-the-vow-part-1/ It is a strange thing to have happen, that's for sure. Also related to this topic: http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/05/27/drug-metyrapone-to-erase-bad-memories/26532.html

Sabby

@Dandelion thanks for the comment, I will check it out when i get home

lobster

Any thoughts

no!

. . . Seem to be getting the hang of this Buddhist karma thing . . .
[oops . . . Just blown it again . . .]

DairyLama

Sabby said:

Memory loss is a good example of how we are not our thoughts, one may live a life of cruel intentions and terrible deeds, and with the blink of an eye, lose all memory of these past events......and therefore NOT this person who did these things.

I think even with complete memory loss one would still have the same underlying tendencies ( what one might call "personality traits" ).

Sabby

SpinyNorman said:

Sabby said:

Memory loss is a good example of how we are not our thoughts, one may live a life of cruel intentions and terrible deeds, and with the blink of an eye, lose all memory of these past events......and therefore NOT this person who did these things.

I think even with complete memory loss one would still have the same underlying tendencies ( what one might call "personality traits" ).

That is a very valid point, I guess a situation where the person was led through unfortunate circumstances to do regretful actions that didn't justly portray thier true personality may be a different case. The memory loss would almost act as a "karmic shower" and cleanse them of the burden that these activites weighed on their conscious prior to the memory loss. Although, between incarnations one also loses their memory and karmic conditioning is still in play, so i suppose a memory loss is kind of like being reborn but without actually dying and karmic conditioning is still in play

pegembara

Even if you have total memory loss, the past karma still operates. You may find people loving you for no apparent reason not knowing that you had been kind to them in the past. Maybe you have certain abilities like playing a musical instrument which you had learned before but forgotten most of it.

So even though we are not our thoughts or memories, we are still subjected to karma. That is why it has been said that when one dies all is left behind except for our karma.