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Branches of Buddhism

LincLinc Site ownerDetroit Moderator
edited June 2005 in Buddhism Basics
I've found general explanations of the difference between Mahayana and Theraveda Buddhism, but can anyone tell me or point me to material that would explain the difference between these branches and Zen Buddhism?

Comments

  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited January 2004
    Zen is part of the mahayana tradition. It is the most widely practiced form of buddhism in Japan, China, Vietnam, Canada, and the US.

    So, in that regard, Zen isn't really a "branch". Zen is the most commercially accessible form of practice here in the US. What I mean by that is that you can find plenty of books, materials, temples, catalogs, etc. all related to Zen training.

    BTW: Zen is a japanese word. The chinese call it "ch'an" or something like that, and I don't know what the Vietnamese call it, but it's all the same thing - Mahayana buddhism.
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited January 2004
    Why is it called Zen and not Mahayana then?
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited January 2004
    Originally posted by Matt@Jan 24 2004, 04:51 PM
    Why is it called Zen and not Mahayana then?
    Okay, let me clarify..

    Zen is different from Zen Buddhism. Zen is a philosophy, and you can apply that philosophy to buddhist practice. Zen is the concept of being completely present, aware, and only existing in the present moment. This, as you can see, coincides with Buddhist practice. Buddhism predates Zen. Siddartha was just Siddartha. His teachings were as they are.

    I have a very limited understanding of Zen, so I could be way off here, but I believe that people of any faith can practice Zen philosophy: Jewish Zen, Christian Zen, Buddhist Zen, etc.

    I'm sure eventually somebody will read this thread and want to throttle me ;)
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited January 2004
    I knew about Zen as a seperate philosophy, but how is it applied to Buddhism that would made it different from another Mahayana tradition?
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited February 2004
    In all honesty, I just don't know very much about Zen.. I've never gone to a Zen temple or spoken with a Zen master or even a Zen practitioner. I'm sure as this site grows, there will be someone who is better qualified to answer that question for you.
  • SabineSabine Veteran
    edited June 2005
    Brian wrote:
    In all honesty, I just don't know very much about Zen.. I've never gone to a Zen temple or spoken with a Zen master or even a Zen practitioner. I'm sure as this site grows, there will be someone who is better qualified to answer that question for you.
    That still helped me, though, thanks ^_^
  • _BeautifulSpringtime_BeautifulSpringtime Veteran
    edited June 2005
    matt wrote:
    I knew about Zen as a seperate philosophy, but how is it applied to Buddhism that would made it different from another Mahayana tradition?

    Sounds like there is a bit of confusion here.

    Zen is Buddhism - you go to a Zen temple and practice meditation, chant, and read/discuss sutras. Shakyamuni is especially revered in the Zen tradition.

    This is an important point because Shakyamuni walked from his palace and sought a way to live his life fully. In the end it took years of meditation in a forest in order to realise the true nature of things. In the Zen traditions Shakyamuni is the example so there is heavy emphasis on meditation for the sake of being, not the chasing of Englightenment.

    Zen is the Chinese practical approach to Buddhism (although Zen originated in India) where it is known as Chan. The Chinese people are known for their practical approach to things and due to this Zen Buddhism really appealed to them due to it's simple practical approach.

    For this reason you can apply Zen philosophy to other things but it is not really separate from the true nature of the self and so, therefore, still Buddhism.

    Zen is set apart from ather Mahayana traditions due to the heavy emphasis on meditation. It is seen as an easily accessable tradition but, in all honesty, it's simplicity can be difficult for westerners to grasp.

    Can I ask: Why the interest Matt?

    I hope this has been helpful.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Bumpin'
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    Dude, Wikipedia :)

    Zen is a school of Mahāyāna Buddhism. The word Zen is from the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word Chan (禅), which in turn is derived from the Sanskrit word dhyāna, which can be approximately translated as "meditation" or "meditative state".

    More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    The main difference I find between Zen and other Mahayana traditions is that Zen puts actual practice 1000 miles above everything else. It's a completely experiential tradition and does not try to explain things that simply can not be explained. Which is why it is filled with what appears to be "riddles". But they are not really riddles per say because what the teacher is getting at, can not be explained with words. The teachers are pointing to an experience and not an intellectual concept or idea. If one has yet to experience that experience, then no matter what one says about it, it's not going to cause you to experience that experience. Only actual practice will cause you to experience that experience. You ultimately can not explain impermanence, dukkha or emptiness, etc. to someone who has not experienced those things. Doing so is like trying to explain to a fish what the top of a mountain is like, when the fish has never left the ocean. It's not possible no matter what you say. Zen basically says: Stop spending your energy thinking about the top of the mountain and just go and climb it already.
  • NidishNidish
    Well, as far as I know, the main difference between Mahayana and Theravada is that Mahayana practitioners believe that Bodhisattvas have stopped themselves from getting into Nirvana so that they can help the Sentient beings, while Theravadins believe being a Bodhisattva is a state before attaining enlightenment... Mahayanis believe that Bodhisattvas can help other sentient people to attain awakening(other than just teaching them)... But Theravadins think only teaching is possible and moving through the path is possible only by the individual...

    hope that helps :)
  • Ada_BAda_B
    I've practised Chinese Zen (Ch'an) and now Tibetan Kagyu. The main reason I switched is that Zen is focussed very much on meditation and I found this difficult to integrate into my life as a mother and carer (although I'm sure some people can).

    In Tibetan Buddhism I also found the rituals and varied practices, such as pujas and deity-practice which suit my "religious" personality. I have found it easier to integrate these practices into my life.

    That said, I still get great help and enjoyment from reading various Zen masters such as Ch'an Master Sheng-Yen and Thich Nhat Hanh. And all traditions acknowledge that they are simply vehicles - when you have mastered the practice, you have to drop the practice, in order to become fully enlightened.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    Zen evolved from Ch'an Buddhism in China. Zen is probably etymologically related to the word Ch'an.
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    Wikipedia barely existed back in 2004 when I started this discussion. :p
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Bumpin'
    WHY???!?
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited February 2011
    I get the impression Japanese Zen Buddhism is the most austere & 'Hinayana' (focused on self-liberation) of all Buddhist schools. The reason for this is it did not become the religion of society so most of its teachings focus on meditation.

    :)

  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    Check out Korean zen. Hyon Gak Sunim and Seung Sahn Sunim are great places to start.
    All the Japanese zen masters flocked to America to teach because Zen has basically died in Japan.
    Right now Korean zen is on the rise. Check this video out. Part two can be found on google as well.
    If you have any questions please ask.

    With love.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-840528705622175236#docid=6060416148516310391

  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    edited February 2011
    Bumpin'
    Oh my dear darling Leon... why in the world do you feel the need to resurrect these ancient topics??? Most of the time the people who started them have long since moved on... and so should we :rolleyes:

    May I suggest bookmarking old threads instead of bumping them? That way you can keep them for reference if there's some good information without pushing them to the top of the forum. Or if you find an intriguing topic you could start a new thread with your thoughts, perhaps with a link to the conversation if it helps give some perspective on the subject.

    Just please, please, no more prehistoric topics! Before you know it we'll be reading stuff from alt.religion.buddhism :crazy:
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Dharma Datu, Shunryu Suzuki said his brand of Zen was a Hinayana practice with a spacious Mahayana mind in his book Zen Mind Beginner Mind
  • ShiftPlusOneShiftPlusOne Veteran
    Before you know it we'll be reading stuff from alt.religion.buddhism :crazy:
    Heh... good ol' Usenet.

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