What is the difference between love and compassion?

lobster

Who loves chocolate? Your partner, your kid, your teacher?

Is compassion love without attachments?
Wouldn't that be . . . expansive . . .?

:wave:

karasti

I don't think you really have to love someone to have compassion. For example, I can have compassion as a human being for someone who did something horrible, because clearly they suffer to have done what they do. I can imagine myself having to sit in prison, suffering over what I did and so on. I can practice sending them compassion in meditation, or even send them letters in prison. But that doesn't mean I love them.

I think if one is honest, when you love someone, you also find compassion comes very naturally. But if you don't love someone, you have to work at the compassion. Once you develop compassion for them, does it mean you love them? I guess that can happen. I've never had it happen, not yet.

ThailandTom

I remember watching something about the Green River Killer who is the serial killer with the highest verified body count in the US I believe. At his trial when he was found guilty, people were allowed to take the stand who had lost a loved one due to this man. Every single one of them said they wanted this man to burn in hell, to suffer a long painful death and were filled with anger and hatred. But there was one man who had lost I think his daughter because of this, he took the stand and he forgave the green river killer and he did not have n angry or hate filled word to say. That was the only time during the entire session of people giving comments to the killer that he showed any emotion whatsoever, he looked as if he was going to well up a little. That is compassion right there, compassion without love.

taiyaki

Love is the vastness of the minds nature that radiates warmth.

Compassion is the activity of the world as the all accomplishing wisdom.

karasti

After the Newtown school shooting here in December, within a few days one of the parents of one of the slain children did a similar thing. Just 2 days after his daughter was killed, he offered love and compassion to the family of the shooter and hoped his community would learn more compassion as a result of the shooting.

ThailandTom

karasti said:

After the Newtown school shooting here in December, within a few days one of the parents of one of the slain children did a similar thing. Just 2 days after his daughter was killed, he offered love and compassion to the family of the shooter and hoped his community would learn more compassion as a result of the shooting.

2 days!? That is really quite quick to go through the notions of dealing with such a loss and end up at compassion, really really quick. There was another incident in Africa I think about a murderer and a room full of people but I forget the details now.

Here is the greenriver killer video, well the small section with the forgiving part anyway.

karasti

Thanks, I hadn't seen that before. I studied serial killers for many years, and followed the Green River Killer and then his arrest and trial quite a bit. Such a mentally disturbed man, like so many of them. I feel bad for some of the people, how extremely hateful they are. I can't say I'd know how I'd feel if someone murdered my sister or my child. But I don't know that I have it in me to stand up and look another human being in the eye and tell them I hope they suffer and die a horrible death. My sister was hit by a car when we were young kids and almost died (drunk driver ran her over when we were playing at the park) and while when it happened I was afraid it would happen again, and scared because I had to testify, I never then or now wished any harm on the guy. He stopped drinking after that accident, which is as much as anyone could have hoped for.

ThailandTom

karasti said:

Thanks, I hadn't seen that before. I studied serial killers for many years, and followed the Green River Killer and then his arrest and trial quite a bit. Such a mentally disturbed man, like so many of them. I feel bad for some of the people, how extremely hateful they are. I can't say I'd know how I'd feel if someone murdered my sister or my child. But I don't know that I have it in me to stand up and look another human being in the eye and tell them I hope they suffer and die a horrible death. My sister was hit by a car when we were young kids and almost died (drunk driver ran her over when we were playing at the park) and while when it happened I was afraid it would happen again, and scared because I had to testify, I never then or now wished any harm on the guy. He stopped drinking after that accident, which is as much as anyone could have hoped for.

Did the driver go to prison? Glad she survived though, that would have been a tragic and reckless loss.

I study them a lot too, I have seen a few documentaries on him before and it is weird how normal he seems. When he talked about the things he did, it is as he was talking about going shopping or cleaning the dishes, something mundane and normal. He couldn't even remember most of the peoples names or faces, they were just objects to him that needed to be discarded in the end, something that a lot of serial killers share.

Anyway this should not turn into a thread about serial killers, you can see from that video the value and humanity of compassion, it even strikes the killer himself. Like I said if you see the full 45 minute documentary, he is totally stone faced throughout his trial until that man who looks like Santa Claus forgives him.

karasti

He went to jail for 3 years, yeah.
I'm surprised I haven't seen the whole video, we watch A&E channel a lot. I will have to look it up online if it's available. I thought the same thing, Santa Claus in rainbow suspenders, lol.

I wish I could say I've been a personal witness to a lot of great acts of compassion. I've seen some but a lot of them rather than being true compassion come across as being more of a pity, more " whew, I'm so glad it's not happening to me" which just is not the same at all.

When we were in high school, my best friend was bullied a lot by a snotty girl in our class. A couple years ago, she found him on Facebook and laid out a very long and heartfelt apology and my friend immediately forgave her. Even that was something to see, knowing how he felt about the way she had treated him for so many years.

ThailandTom

karasti said:

He went to jail for 3 years, yeah.
I'm surprised I haven't seen the whole video, we watch A&E channel a lot. I will have to look it up online if it's available. I thought the same thing, Santa Claus in rainbow suspenders, lol.

I wish I could say I've been a personal witness to a lot of great acts of compassion. I've seen some but a lot of them rather than being true compassion come across as being more of a pity, more " whew, I'm so glad it's not happening to me" which just is not the same at all.

When we were in high school, my best friend was bullied a lot by a snotty girl in our class. A couple years ago, she found him on Facebook and laid out a very long and heartfelt apology and my friend immediately forgave her. Even that was something to see, knowing how he felt about the way she had treated him for so many years.

Another great story to hear, it kind of gives you a bit more faith in humanity

If you want to watch the entire episode here is the link

riverflow

A very good friend of mine, whom I had known for many years since we were teenagers, was found guilty of molesting his little sister. At the time that this occurred, he would have been anywhere from age 15 to about 17. His little sister was roughly ten years younger than he. And he did in fact do this, on more than one occasion. When he told me, he was utterly alone and had no one else to turn to. And even though I knew that what he had done was so harmful beyond what I could imagine, I couldn't turn my back on him. I just let him talk and cry and I held him in my arms.

It was just last year that he told me about a class action lawsuit that he was in. I knew that, like me, he was raised Catholic. But what I didn't know was that there was a priest that molested him when he was very young (before we ever met). Everything made more sense to me in light of this. But he never told me about this before.

Now, don't get me wrong--a harmful action like that doesn't let someone off the moral hook just because they were molested themselves when they were younger too. I'm not making excuses for anyone. But my point is that no actions spring up out of a vacuum. They do not originate sui generis from one individual-- whether the actions create horrendous damage or are wonderfully beneficial.

Something that has been on my mind today is that people are not 'good' or 'bad' or any one final thing. In my Buddhist practice, I've always thought of no-self (i.e. no independently existing, permanent, essentialised self) in reflecting upon myself. But this is true of others too--and I think this is a Buddhist basis for compassion.

When we judge someone as 'good' or 'bad' we are defining them by identifying a particular activity (or set of activities) with who they are essentially. If we have a bad experience with someone (or witness it) we think, 'That guy is a jerk.' The important word there is the misleading word 'is.' Whether we are aware of it or not, we have set this person's life in stone--they are a jerk, forever.

But the truth is no one IS any one thing. This may be good news, for us and for everyone. Because it means we can change course--for the better or for the worse. I like how Thich Nhat Hanh talks of compassion as watering seeds that are present in different people. We all have different mixes of beneficial and harmful seeds in us. And there is no final balance sheet that one can draw up and keep score to say their bad acts outweigh their good acts (besides, how would we even know the totality of a lifetime worth of acts?).

The point is to cultivate the beneficial seeds--not only in ourselves, but in others. We can't just write of someone as a hopeless case because no one is 100% pure grade evil all the time, for once and for all. Even Hitler had a fondness for dogs and children.

Again, none of this is to let anyone off the hook for their actions, but judgement means identifying someone as 100% a jerk, or a saint, or a whatever. This tendency to essentialise people, to set an identity in stone, to ultimately define them by identifying them with certain actions is the very antithesis of compassion. Compassion is realised through no-self, impermanence and emptiness--not only in 'me' but in all beings.

I'm not sure I have expressed my thoughts as clearly as I would like, but I hope what I'm saying makes sense. It was a sort of mini-revelation to me this evening.

And more strictly on topic, to echo @karasti 's sentiment, one does not have to love someone to have compassion. Acts of compassion may occur between two people who don't even know one another. You can't love someone you don't know. But you can have compassion for anyone and everyone, if you can learn how to be open.

Daiva

Compassion is the sincere intent to ease the suffering of others.
Love is to sincerely wish happiness for others.
I think....

karasti

@riverflow, both insightful and awesome, but I had to choose one, lol. I totally agree. It's like was said on the Dharma Brothers documentary I watched the other day where they basically said "yes, this man murdered someone, but he is not only a murderer." We all have the same human qualities. We all have the same basic ability to do wonderful things or heinous things. To pretend we could never be the person who did the heinous things is fooling oneself. We are all capable of the entirety of the human experience.

ThailandTom

Daiva said:

Compassion is the sincere intent to ease the suffering of others.
Love is to sincerely wish happiness for others.
I think....

This sounds pretty good, would you also consider this to be true for self compassion and self love?

Daiva

I am not an expert.
Metta practice is expression of love for oneself thru repeating the phrases "may i be happy, etc."
And Metta also extends kindness (aka compassion) for oneself with the phrases "may my suffering be eased, may i be at peace, may i be safe, etc."
And we direct this practice toward ourselves and others - so there is no distinction to whom specifically our intent of our action of love and compassion is directed. Our intent is impressed on both ourselves and others - and actually transcends ourselves and others - as we are not separate, we are all connected - one.

lobster

Forgiving or acceptance of suffering is another related issue.

Is the difference between compassion and love, that love is the internal quality/experience and compassion is the projection or practice of love?

ThailandTom said:

Daiva said:

Compassion is the sincere intent to ease the suffering of others.
Love is to sincerely wish happiness for others.
I think....

This sounds pretty good, would you also consider this to be true for self compassion and self love?

Related to this, are Buddhists passionate enablers of compassion/love or dispassionate? If so is @Daiva right and the object, the sun (of love) shines on, not dependent on the nature of the object . . .
otherwise we seem to be describing conditional love . . . not spiritual?