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Just wanted to add, that over the last few months I've warmed more up to Christianity... Which is weird to me, but not totally unexpected given the existential crisis my "quest to come around" started.. Now I also understand how a lot of people can mix Christianity and Buddhism.. These are interesting times - in my mind at least
Actually, if you want to see Christianity through a different lens, look into Christian Gnosticism. I remember reading (in early 1900 masonic historical tomes) some very awesome, organic, common sense, progressive interpretations of Jesus's teachings coming from the likes of the originator of the rosicrucian order. Such things might be a further balm for you. From age ten I thought Christianity (as it was presented to me) was completely ridiculous. Later in old books I discovered that metaphor and symbolism quietly convey ideas that are far beyond the fire and brimstone, self contradictory ones.
Wasn't Jesus a carpenter in the time before his ministry? Is that the story. It is plenty reasonable that he didn't go to India and was just a carpenter in Israel or whatever it was called back then. Judea?
Wasn't Jesus a carpenter in the time before his ministry? Is that the story. It is plenty reasonable that he didn't go to India and was just a carpenter in Israel or whatever it was called back then. Judea?
The carpenter or the carpenter's son, depending on which gospel
Thanks to riverflow and oceancaldera207 for the recommendations
Hey Ficus - there is a BIG difference between the teachings of Jesus Christ and of the Christian churches. Keep reading....
Yea now I know, so I like the dude a lot more Almost read all four gospels now and will of course continue till the end
I'd encourage you to read the scholarship and commentary on the Gnostic Gospels. It will give you a new view on Christianity, bringing it closer to Buddhism.
From an American perspective, this is very strange. And a waste of school time. As a child, I wouldn't have tolerated this type of class.
"Children are supposed to go to church during school time on church holidays"? REALLY?? I thought Europe was more secular than that. On other forums, Europeans have said north and central Europe isn't particularly religious. What you say sounds like something from the early 20th Century, lol! Sorry, but it's hard to believe this is going on now.
This is how it is in Australia too. In public schools, you can choose to have your children attend or be exempt from Religion classes. In my primary school (Catholic) we went to church on Friday mornings. It still happens today. But in public schools (which are secular) it's not a done thing. If you choose to send your child to a private or non-secular school, your child is expected to attend the religious services. If you don't want your child to be exposed to religion, send them to a public school and say no to elective religion class, they can do art, reading or other studies instead. It's really no big deal.
@ficus_religiosa well what i think is important is Jesus was 13 then disappeared from the middle east till around 30ish and started his ministry which he performed "miracles".
so what did he do during those 17 years? Where did he go? Why did he come back?
Any self realized mindful sentient being knows buddha Dhamma whether they reguard it as Dhamma or as helping its still the same.
This is how it is in Australia too. In public schools, you can choose to have your children attend or be exempt from Religion classes. In my primary school (Catholic) we went to church on Friday mornings. It still happens today. But in public schools (which are secular) it's not a done thing. If you choose to send your child to a private or non-secular school, your child is expected to attend the religious services.
@oceancaldera207 - why the :-( ? You have a choice. Parents can still shield their children from religion if they see it necessary to do. I'm glad I had the upbringing I did. It prepared me to make informed decisions as to my spiritual path.
I fail to see why some are so vehemently down on religion being available as a choice. Granted some have had horrendous experiences, but not everyone does or has.
The term Gnosticism was a scholarly construct of the 19th century used to define a singular unified spiritual movement that modern scholarship now refutes, as there were various competing movements within the early church, and they were named after their founders such as Docetism, Valentinianism, and Marcionism for example.
Valentinianism is the movement connected with the Nag Hammadi findings. When examining these types of texts it is important to recognize that they were held and interpreted with a certain set of beliefs which we are far removed from, so naturally they are open to our own interpretations and ideas. A common idea we repeatedly see suggested is that since on the surface they appear to be similar in some respects to what the Buddha was teaching Jesus must have went to India.
Each movement more or less held some common beliefs with special elaborations or embellishments such as denying Christianity’s Judaic roots, that the creator of this world was not made by the true god but by a demiurge in rebellion, there is the ideal world and our world, material creation is a prison and evil at worse, Jesus was a phantom and not physical, and we all have an eternal divine origin the memory of which we have lost, but could be restored through special knowledge or gnosis that the average Christian does not have access to, the result of which frees oneself from the material creation with the return to our divine origin.
If you have issues with or have difficulty accepting that Jesus Christ perspired, urinated, and defecated then perhaps one of these movements will suit you.
The term Gnosticism was a scholarly construct of the 19th century used to define a singular unified spiritual movement that modern scholarship now refutes, as there were various competing movements within the early church, and they were named after their founders such as Docetism, Valentinianism, and Marcionism for example.
Valentinianism is the movement connected with the Nag Hammadi findings. When examining these types of texts it is important to recognize that they were held and interpreted with a certain set of beliefs which we are far removed from, so naturally they are open to our own interpretations and ideas. A common idea we repeatedly see suggested is that since on the surface they appear to be similar in some respects to what the Buddha was teaching Jesus must have went to India.
Each movement more or less held some common beliefs with special elaborations or embellishments such as denying Christianity’s Judaic roots, that the creator of this world was not made by the true god but by a demiurge in rebellion, there is the ideal world and our world, material creation is a prison and evil at worse, Jesus was a phantom and not physical, and we all have an eternal divine origin the memory of which we have lost, but could be restored through special knowledge or gnosis that the average Christian does not have access to, the result of which frees oneself from the material creation with the return to our divine origin.
If you have issues with or have difficulty accepting that Jesus Christ perspired, urinated, and defecated then perhaps one of these movements will suit you.
@Silouan I suggested checking out Gnosticism because it was more about insight through meditation, and they believed that life was suffering. Among some of the Gnostic sects, celibacy was promoted so as not to bring any more people into the world to experience suffering. Maybe others could find other parallels with Buddhism.
Reading commentary and analysis by Biblical and Nag Hammadi scholars, like Elaine Pagels, will help people put the Gnostic tradition into context. I see no reason to worry about people projecting their own interpretation onto it. I simply thought it would be broadening for the OP to see that there's more to Christianity than what's in the Bible. The Bible really only represents institutionalized Christianity, which is only one aspect of it.
@Dakini I don't doubt your positive intentions, and after reflecting on what you said I do think it can help others investigate further and become more aware of a Christian history that goes beyond the Protestant Reformation and the Roman Catholic Church, which in my opinion has given us a certain bias against or negativity towards organized Christian religion.
I must admit I held that very same bias and negativity as a Buddhist, but it was after reading Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh and the numerous quotes of verses in it from outside of the canonical texts that actually lead me to the ancient church, where to my surprise still existed and held to its tradition, which of course the canonical bible is a part but certainly not all of it. For me the gnostic movements and the various speculative interpretations are rather ambiguous and would be most difficult to base a solid practice upon today.
Also, I never thought that celibacy in Buddhism was promoted so as not to bring any more people into the world to experience suffering. I have always understood it to be purely an ascetic practice, but I can see why some gnostic sects would believe so since the material world was generally viewed as a prison or evil at worse, and this does not seem to be very life affirming.
Comments
Thanks to riverflow and oceancaldera207 for the recommendations
He was Jewish - he would have been married and had a few kids then gone on to preach :P
In good humour,
Raven - the heretical Jew
I fail to see why some are so vehemently down on religion being available as a choice. Granted some have had horrendous experiences, but not everyone does or has.
In metta,
Raven
Valentinianism is the movement connected with the Nag Hammadi findings. When examining these types of texts it is important to recognize that they were held and interpreted with a certain set of beliefs which we are far removed from, so naturally they are open to our own interpretations and ideas. A common idea we repeatedly see suggested is that since on the surface they appear to be similar in some respects to what the Buddha was teaching Jesus must have went to India.
Each movement more or less held some common beliefs with special elaborations or embellishments such as denying Christianity’s Judaic roots, that the creator of this world was not made by the true god but by a demiurge in rebellion, there is the ideal world and our world, material creation is a prison and evil at worse, Jesus was a phantom and not physical, and we all have an eternal divine origin the memory of which we have lost, but could be restored through special knowledge or gnosis that the average Christian does not have access to, the result of which frees oneself from the material creation with the return to our divine origin.
If you have issues with or have difficulty accepting that Jesus Christ perspired, urinated, and defecated then perhaps one of these movements will suit you.
Reading commentary and analysis by Biblical and Nag Hammadi scholars, like Elaine Pagels, will help people put the Gnostic tradition into context. I see no reason to worry about people projecting their own interpretation onto it. I simply thought it would be broadening for the OP to see that there's more to Christianity than what's in the Bible. The Bible really only represents institutionalized Christianity, which is only one aspect of it.
I must admit I held that very same bias and negativity as a Buddhist, but it was after reading Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh and the numerous quotes of verses in it from outside of the canonical texts that actually lead me to the ancient church, where to my surprise still existed and held to its tradition, which of course the canonical bible is a part but certainly not all of it. For me the gnostic movements and the various speculative interpretations are rather ambiguous and would be most difficult to base a solid practice upon today.
Also, I never thought that celibacy in Buddhism was promoted so as not to bring any more people into the world to experience suffering. I have always understood it to be purely an ascetic practice, but I can see why some gnostic sects would believe so since the material world was generally viewed as a prison or evil at worse, and this does not seem to be very life affirming.